I personally think odyn is a badly designed card. You shouldnt be able to turn defense into offense this easy. Warrior already revolved around getting armor and now they get rewarded for something they do normally. Beeing able to gain 40+ attack in a single turn is insane. The tools available for control are way to good and they can stack insane amount of armor even before Odyn is played. While personally i think this card should be reworked from the ground up, a good change for this card would be to act as double edged sword. Once you play it, all future armor gain will be turned into attack. I think the warrior should also loose all of their armor they already stacked up to this point. You could still have the insane attack otks this way but it would leave the warrior more vulnerabel after he commited to Odyn.
That’s an interesting idea. You basically turn a tank into a beserker. It it probably too much of a nerf, though.
I usually don’t like any idea coming from these kind of nerf threads but I will admit, this one is pretty good. I think it would be too harsh of a nerf, so I don’t endorse it but it’s a smart change.
Warrior can stay on top for a while after having been so bad tbh. I am farming them like crazy so the more the merrier
The trick is having enough decks in the meta that are effective in piling on damage early and force them to spend the resources they use later to win the games with. Hunter and Paladin are doing this very effectively and are pushing the win rates down. The problem comes in with Druid and how it can actually create more armor mid game than your typical Warrior deck creates all game. They also don’t lose any resources doing it. Druid is the deck that really needs addressed IMO.
I tried thinking of a way to keep the core idea of the card alive. I dont like the card overall but at the same time its might the only reason why warrior is on top right now. It really annoys me seeing them stack up armor while they search for Odyn and then even after they play Odyn getting up to like 60 armor. This way if the Warrior doesnt have the burst ready they would be punished for playing Odyn early.
It does feel bad to lose because of a single card. It’s almost like a dumb boss fight with a timer, where once it goes off, you almost automatically lose, even if you got them to critical health.
It could be given a condition, like having it be a no duplicate card or smth
Is their grip on their shield too loose?
Would you say it’s the Warrior’s enrage timer?
Odyn warrior isn’t even the best warrior deck out right now, and loses to lot of other decks, so I don’t really see much call for nerfing it.
Oh no, they designed a card that actually synergize with warriors bad hero power. How dare they?!
They had that since day 1. remember shield slam?
I find warrior HP to be quite good. it and druid is the only HP that can bring your hp above the limit.
odyn, should change. and I really like the OP idea. but I don’t think they should lose armor, just not be able to gain more. would suck to have 1 hp 20 armor and die to a skeleton.
Yeah shield slam face for 80 damage. There was ONE deck that relied on that and it wasnt very good or long lasting.
In case you have difficulty reading im talking about synergies that can win games. You know, kill the opponent. Reduce their health to 0. Without going 12 turns in fatigue.
You know how good shield slam is vs garrote rogue? Seed lock? Miracle rogue with stealthed 15/15 ghost? Drakka rogue with 34 damage weapon tun 4? Tony druid? Spell dh? Ilgynoth otk? Or another deck win with no board or dont care about the board.
You know what i meant. Dont be a dimwit and make a comment like that. Its just dumb. Shield slam cant kill opponents, also since day 1.
Warrior hp good? Yeah but it doesnt matter. Decks deal 60-248 damage from hand. Armor all you want. It doesnt win.
Is anyone even playing this bad deck any longer? I was pretty sure it dropped off the meta hard.
The armchair game designer in me likes the idea of “Battlecry: Until the end of the game, you gain Attack until end of turn instead of Armor if you haven’t attacked yet that turn.”
But I don’t give a lot of credence to my inner armchair game designer. And I don’t think that you should, either.
I think we can all admit that Odyn’s effect is just too easy to abuse for warrior these days. They have so many cheap ways of gaining armor, and I’m starting to see more of them running Zola just to duplicate Ignis in case their weapon is destroyed. Odyn+Ignis is that insanely powerful against several popular decks. Some of the suggested nerfs here are interesting, there should be SOME downside to using Odyn and then solely focusing on nothing but armor generation for offense. There aren’t enough decent taunters (outside of Sargeras Warlock’s imps) to really be able to block warrior’s face attacks for long…and even then, once they have their 10 mana Ignis weapon equipped, they can just drop a starfish to negate any taunters on the board and smash their enemy for 40-50+ damage. That’s too much face damage coming at you round after round from a WEAPON.
Highest WR deck with Odyn in has a 49% winrate right now, pretty much proof that the “problem” isn’t Odyn at all.
I think it might be a bit early to come to such conclusions. Given the lightness of the Warrior nerfs and the prepatch data I don’t see how Warrior could legitimately be brought so low.
I mean maybe you ARE right but I ain’t admitting it for 3 days minimum
Oh and obviously I don’t admit that “we can all admit” like the other guy said
Odyn’s 1:1 armor to dmg effect might be tricky to nerf. As we saw, before the standard update, he saw minor but decent wild experimentation play, but not much standard play before the support cards got buffed.
I think completely losing all armor might be a bit harsh. As Warrior’s deck was make or break it until the hammer buff + miniset support.
However, the current iteration could be a bit iffy, and well worth monitoring or watching. Current Odyn warrior can creates a absurd amount armor each turn, often clear the board for extremely cheap, showing up in legend in both formats, for a deck that just barely came out a few months ago.
But i definitely feel like the combination of chained armor gain can get a bit overdone. Now they can just stack up so much armor in both formats, especially the wild versions where they don’t need to play standard’s bad set of warrior cards, but pick their favorite 2 mana for 10 armor cards.
It could quickly get absurd how hard they can get to kill just from stacking armor.
They’re often pretty freed from board/minion dependence due to odyn armor shenanigans, many Odyn decks don’t even bother much with the board anymore.
It’s a “unique deck” design for sure, but there’s a lot of play similarities to the old Justicar Fatigue Control warriors. Where they did nothing but armor up for 20 turns in a row, and then kill you. (Odyn vs Fatigue/alexstraza ).
Especially in wild where a fair amount of 2 mana 10 armor cards exist + Odyn tutoring, warriors can just completely neglect the board, stall for 5-10 turns off absurd stacks of armor. Then gain 12-34 armor+attack and kill you.
It feels like unless you can deal 20 damage a turn from a empty board while having your stuff cleared for cheap, the gameplay experience can devolve into just boring gameplay Vs. You don’t really get any minions to hit, all your minions get removed, and they might have 30-120 armor.
Even if you platebreaker in wild, poof goes on another 24 armor in a single turn and your entire board to a 0 mana board clear.
I just wish that there wasn’t so much armor and clear to chew through in the current iteration.
I don’t think the deck needs to die, but perhaps for maybe future odyn warrior iterations, to perhaps have a limiter or tech card for armor chugging, or perhaps some soft counters. Like i don’t mind warrior existing, a deck has been due and fourms asked for the buffs.
I just kinda think it might be more interesting if the shining cards were interesting cards. TBH a lot of modern standard cards are punching wild, but a lot of non odyn Standard cards are noticably lackluster while everything else is broken.
Maybe they could try a rework / rebalance where maybe Odyn was nerfed a bit. But buffed a lot of low/no play seeing warrior standard cards.
Since honestly a lot of standard warrior cards seem frankly, pretty awful, especially standard warrior minions, and the flopped fire package. (2 mana for a conditional +1/1 buff in modern +1-2 mana powercreeped standard?
Some of Warrior’s standards cards would be weak by even Rastakhan/TGT standards. The fire package looks terrible, many minions look terrible.) But the wild armor cards are definitely overdone.
Odyn while a interesting card, might seem like he might perhaps free too much independence from the board.
Since you can easily gain enough attack from Odyn alone to kill the enemy, and use warrior’s cheap and sometimes abundant board clears to clear taunt walls, They don’t seem to need nor care about their own board.
(It probably doesn't help their standard cards have so much hot flaming garbage though, that they needed to put so much power into one card to make warrior EVEN work though.)
- Just rn, current warrior seem incentivized to stack as much armor and removal and little else of anything else.
- (Especially in wild versions where a deck can consist of 2 mana 10 armor cards, removal, and little else but that.)
- Maybe new tech cards to punish armor hoarding with maybe a continuous armor eroding effect(?)
- Making odyn give 0.7 attack per armor sounds clunky, and doesn’t resolve the game kinda ending once he’s played.
- 8->9 Mana could definitely shift % a bit without killing the effect. But there’s still a lot of stall.
- Capping the dmg gained a turn, like say the first 8-20 armor a turn might help.
You could try to undo the hammer buff, but it feels pretty thematic tbh. I guess you could test knocking the armor back 1 point if you really wanted though.
Maybe you nerf a whole bunch of armor cards, you might create a situation similar to what Incanter’s flow/ Refreshing spring water did. Where hesitance to nerf a synergy card made a lot of other cards get nerfed first by proximity. Then dead after both were finally hit.
- Ex: Rusteating Amalgam: 5 mana 5/4:
Neutral, Tribe: All:Tradable, Choose one: Your opponent loses 4 armor at the start of each player’s turn. OR destroy a mech (can target stealthed minions)
- It wouldn’t stop Odyn from working as a win condition/ attack gain card.
- But it could wear through excess armor, punish strats built solely upon armor hogging. Or even help with Stealthed mech interactivity.
Odyn seems held up by support cards(?), he didn’t see as much play BEFORE buffs, but became dominant after support buffs.
- 8->9 Mana? Capping Attack gain to 8-20? Nerfing armor cards? Undoing Hammer buff? Tuning down the globs and globs of armor? Do we weaken clear?
- Do we want Platebreaker/anti armor tech cards in standard(???)
- It’s just not obvious what the clearest/ “best” nerf should be.
- (Edit: A lot of standard warrior cards are flaming hot garbage too. Maybe we should take a look at that too.)
I’d argue that Odyn actually isn’t that good at all. I’ve play a shed load of Odyn Warrior. (300-400ish games) and probably about 400-500 games with other meta decks that either counter Odyn or get stomped by it.
I’ve played Curse / Control / Thadd Warlock, Mech Rogue, Control Priest, Pure Paladin, Secret Hunter, and had a go with a few of the other decks like Mage and Druid.
Odyn isn’t the problem with control warrior at all, from what I’ve seen.
You also have to carefully consider the cards you play when running control warrior, no point using all your armour generators and then having nothing to attack with when you play Odyn. People are acting like the armour accumulation prior to playing Odyn guarantees a loss, but a warrior is losing massive damage by playing their armour cards early on.
The main “issue” is that Odyn could literally be any win condition and Warrior would have been winning the games because it just does the “control” aspect so well. By the time Control Warrior plays Odyn, you’ve probably already lost anyway outside of silly high rolls with discounts and tutors.
Is Odyn the issue? Well, you could say it is, but it’s literally just a singular win condition in a very overtuned control deck. It’s the thing priest is missing.
Now that the “control” aspect has been nerfed, Odyn literally sucks. HSR data shows Control Warrior at 49%WR since the nerfs.
You wrote a one-liner and one post, there’s nothing to read there.