change ceaseless to cost 20 mana and it’s cost gets reduce by 1 mana each turn
just played 3 games in wild
and all of them were holy wrath paladin.
5 Likes
last holy wrath paladin i played against i rnged a eye for an eye secret with desperate measures lol we tied
3 Likes
Honestly i really feel like Holy wrath is one of those cards that always feels dumb to lose to.
First time is a meme but a two card exodia that can be active as soon as t5 with the new scout card notifying ceaseless or the 25 dmg tiger. At least before it was a hard requirement to at least notify the opponent with a dredge. But now?
The gameplay fighting this deck is the same old solitare people complained about. Except if your opponent never played any cards playing solitare until your face exploded.
I do enjoy wild and im not afraid of a higher power level. But there should at least be a minor amount of counterplay in top 1k legend wild decks imho. There’s too many top 1k legend decks right now whose game plans just completely ignore the opponent (like freeze hostage mage / Druid Barnes OTK mage / Druid ramp and play Dungar to tutor “Spells cost 1, refresh all your mana or fill your hands with cards, +5 spell damage, otk the opponent and cast your next spell twice and draw 10 cards and deal 20 damage for 2 mana” kinda schticks.
Like yeah some people will come to standard, play crap, lose to crap and complain it’s not a hsreplay netdeckable format. But we’ve had interactive 1k legend decks before. Excluding quest mage bs, which really did just evolve to… permafreeze hostage mage stuff.
I enjoy the back and forth raid boss vs raid boss gameplay of wild vs… Do nothing for 4 turns then your opponent instantly dies gameplay decks. But too many decks that are doing well do so by like utterly disregarding whatever your opponent is playing and focusing on their solitare.
Holy wrathadin? See if scout or dredge says “1-2 cards 4-8 mana, you win!”
Imbue mage? Play 2-4 imbues then see if your opponent played 1-2 tall minions, then holomancer + drink to clear up to 1-3x turns in a row. OR see if they played 2-4+ minions, then reckless apprentice / Double hero power Reckless apprentice / Bran reckless apprentice and deal up to 5-14 dmg per minion played x2.
Permafreeze Freeze Hostage mage? Yeah just potion of illusion and freeze every turn while the old Rommath → infinite potions of illusions → infinite frost novas / ice blocks / alibis gets played. Mage has a eternal problem with Rommath since ETC enabling infinite ice block / ice nova / potion of illusion loops and it’s been years and they axed the uninteractive quest, but being permafrozen with a alibi and ice block isn’t really that much fun either.
Something like freezes having diminishing returns where the first 2 freezes in a row work, but after 3+ turns frozen in a row, minions have a 10% per turn frozen chance to thaw could open up some reaction space. But im not sure the text would fit in a keyword card.
But for holy wrath, Im still of the mind that imho something like dmg limits to open up some interactivity.
Holy wrath: limited to 25 dmg or uses hand cost of cards when calculating dmg.
Reckless apprentice: only recasts on living minions.
Holomancer: Limited to the first 2-3 minions per turn maybe to increase chances of a minion sticking to remove it. or a battlecry to make it this turn only.
Or just selective card bans like Holy wrath can’t be in the same deck as ceaseless expanse. Maybe with a red stamp marker for selective bans like there could be two tiers.
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Partial combo ban: can’t be maindecked but etc could discover it, as a tempo tax for wild. (So people could still play it. But it could at least be some heads up for say, ice block/bubble/time out turns)
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Complete combo ban, these cards cant be maindecked or sidedecked together. But could be used seperately.
And for ui /new players like a red stamp indicator could notify what cards it was banned with.
Maybe a bit clunky but that way maybe you could allow molten giant/shirvallah holy wrath pally or maybe limit cap to 35-45.
But a 125 dmg 2 card exodia that offers very little counterplay is a design space issue imho.
3 Likes
This is like the third or fourth time holy wrath has been the main issue but instead they nerf the cards around holy wrath and ignore the real problem. I’m not even surprised at this point.
4 Likes
Simplest and easiest fix? Holy Wrath only target minions, solved, no more instant death
Edit: funny that Everburning Phoenix and Grove Tender(i think that’s the name) got banned, but this got a pass
5 Likes
I’ve always wanted it to deal damage based on the cost of the card in hand, because it draws the card first.
It wouldn’t fix the problem with ceaseless though. That card still costs way too much by turn 5.
But yeah, I don’t know how holy wrath has been allowed to live this long without a rework.
4 Likes
holy wrath is a problem, but at the same time a warrior 3/5 dredging for 125 armor (forgot the name) is also kind of lame. maybe its ceaseless after all?
2 Likes
Honestly.
Even if holy wrath was nerf for an acceptable price it would still dumb because it would be a 3 card combo that can be put on almost any deck.
That card really has to be changed to a removal. Probably a board clear to be fair.
3 Likes
You can easily deal with Armor in Wild at least, with Platebreaker. Over 2000 armor? Gone.
1 Like
change lavagorger and holy wrath to (up to 10). probably lower the cost of holy wrath 1 or something.
Dredge is not guaranteed, it can only pick 1 of the 3 cards at the bottom of your deck. And even if it hits ceaseless, it does not lead to an instant win like the holy wrath combo with only 2 cards.
2 Likes
those are way more consistent and easier to pull
Holy wrath paladin now is like way more consistent than it has ever been before thanks to the new scout.
Paladin in wild now has a way to practically draw and reorganize their deck however they want very early and know what’s coming next.
Between overplanner, dredge, sphere, scout, polkelt, order in the court, 1 mana tutor holy wrath and 1 mana tutor your minion that tutors holy wrath, you can deal 125 to face on like turns 4-6 with turn 6 being pretty common.
It’s stupid game play and at this point they have to address holy wrath. There is no other way around it unless they outright ban ceaseless.
3 Likes
ceaseless costing 20 doesnt stop me from killing you, i have 2 holy wraths and 6 20 cost minions already
1 Like
We have seen recently they can cap damage on cards and are willing to do it. Cap the Damage on Holy Wrath would seem like a simple fix.
5 Likes
Nah, just make Timeout a holy spell.
I play odyn warrior. good luck killing odyn warrior
when it can easily stack 50+ armor.
the idea is to tone it down. not trying to completely kill it.
1 Like
51 armor + 40 health - 125 = …
2 Likes
Holy wrath obviously needs to only target minions. We all know this combo is as dumb as it gets. Please just fix this one.
2 Likes
right but block 100 damage in 1 sitting in wild is hard, esp to the hero. even dk pre leech patch would struggle with that much damage
1 Like