Evolve's Return Was a Mistake

Multiplayer Discussion
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Out of all the cards put back into standard, through Rag, Sylvanus, and N’Zoth, one stands out. Something seemingly people slept on.

“It wouldn’t see play,” they said.

“Shaman isn’t in a place for Evolve to be good,” they said.

They were wrong.

Evolve can single-handedly swing games too early. This also goes for Mogu.

Evolve is so good, it’s slotted into Quest Shaman. Evolve is so good, it’s pushing Shaman high into tier 1. The problem with it is, is that it is simply too swingy with Desert Hare. Being able to potentially get 3 four mana minions onto the board with two cards is extremely powerful. This is amplified by Mogu, which can get out easily on turn 3.

Mogu not only gives you an 8 drop on turn 3-4, but also deals 3 damage. Evolve pushes the bill even further with crazy combos such as Vir’naal + Hare + Evolve.

The truth is, not all classes can reliably deal with this at any given time. Board clears just aren’t there a lot of the time early enough to really deal with a bunch of 4 mana minions and possible 8 mana minions.

A simple 1 mana card can now swing games entirely and therefor it’s too much.

My suggestion is nerfing Mogu to where it only gets discounted from your own minions. This would give your opponent mroe time to counter the card.

As for Evolve, it’s tricky. You can’t just nerf it because it’s limited. This also goes for Desert Hare, as it didn’t see play before this.

I’d suggest changing the card out for another, if possible. Replace it with Devolve or maybe even Mistcaller. We can expect nerfs soon anyways, so this may be a possibility.

Just worth noting that Evolve is blatantly too much, boosting Shaman up to Tier 1 all on its own.

8 Likes
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To be fair, I called Evolve as the card I wanted back least. But I’m sure that number 2, Flamewaker, would be just as bad if Evolve Shaman wasn’t choking them out of the meta.

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Yeah. Flamewaker is extremely powerful and carries the already flawed and weak Cyclone Mage.

Some people foresaw what Evolve would do. Props for being right.

4

In the wild this card lays
One eyed monster from frozen lands
Born to devour idols of jade
Now we need thee once more
To do nothing on turn 4
We need your powers to slay the Shaman masters

Skulking Geist, Skulking Geist, Skulking Geist, WE ASK FOR YOU TO RE-APPEAR!
…
…
…
… Or Blizzard to just give Evolve the boot…we’ll take either…

5 Likes
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When they announced Evolve was coming back I thought the Desert Hare combo had potential. I had no idea it would be THIS strong. Like turn 4 auto-win strong.

The truth is there is an egregious lack of good answers to a turn 4 Hare + Evolve in Standard. Mass Hysteria and Brawl are the cheapest board clears in the game right now, and those are 5 mana (plus they aren’t even full clears much of the time). If you don’t have one of those cards you have to rely on making your own board to trade into their minions, and that leaves you open to being blown out by Mogu (which is another problem on its own). There’s really not much you can do in a lot of these shaman games.

So yeah, the combo is unfair, it’s broke af, and needs to be nerfed yesterday. I’m really surprised more people aren’t up in arms over this. We still have 2 more months of this, guys…

9 Likes
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Oh but many players complained about it already and the latest VS report shows a pretty low number of games played, although I’m not sure it’s related to the returning wild cards. I decided not to touch ranked during this event, like this I can just concede to any deck I find too boring (quite many, I have to say) and that, of course, includes evolve shaman with the dumb hare.

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I pretty much just get to rank 5 and not playing until new expansion even when I have access to almost every tier 1 and 2 meta decks. It’s just not fun right now.

4 Likes
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There’s really no point complaining about anything. As long as people play the game and give Blizzard money, people’s complaints are useless.

1 Like
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The problem isn’t Evolve. It’s the interaction between Evolve, Hare and Mogu Fleshshaper that’s the problem. I don’t think anyone would be getting fussed over people Evolving Pantry Spiders.

I tend to agree that it should be removed as a result. There’s a reason that everyone I saw brought Shaman to Bucharest. Whether that will happen is another question, as ladder does not really matter under present competitive rules and the problem will get resolved soon enough anyway.

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how much longer do we have to put up with this bunny crap shaman evolve thing for

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Let’s not forget that after you are forced to play minions to deal with the hare/evolve board and punished by mogu. If you actually manage to play enough to get ahead you just get punished again by mc tech.

I knew evolve was going to be a problem from the time I saw the leaked list. Quest shaman was already very popular, and battlecry minions generally have low stats because their value is in the battlecry. It’s easy to extrapolate that a wide board of low stat minions being upgraded to average stats and up 1 Mana cost was going to be a problem.

3 Likes
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Personally, I think Mogu is way more problematic. Mogu usually takes a value trade before it evolves, and then certain 8 drops are just game-ending.

I played a game recently where my opponent had zero minions on turn 3; I had a 3/4 Zephrys, 1/2 beaming sidekick, and Never Surrender secret. They played faceless lackey, voltaic burst, Mogu hit Zephyrs, mutate into Batterhead, cleared Zephrys and the beaming sidekick with Batterhead plus 1 of the Zoltaic burst.

So, from an empty board and for only 3 mana, my opponent did 10 damage to my board while developing a 3/8 Batter head, 2 1/1’s, and 2/3. That’s just completely game-breaking mana cheat. How can you play around that?

1 Like
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Litterally one out of two game are shaman. In these game, Hares+ evolves, or mogu + evolves turn 3/4 in half my match. can’t deal with it unless I play a control deck and I happen to have hysteria / starfall etc in my hand. I can’t understand how people enjoy playing this kind of deck anyways. Must be so boring.

1 Like
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Flamewaker would be better if all the death rattle stuff wasn’t meta.

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Wild cards are staying until December 1st-7th, being the release date of the next expansion.

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They should change the Mogu Fleshaper to 10 mana, that way it cannot get evolved and summoned that fast to the board.

Regarding the Desert Hare problem, make the bunnies that are summoned worth each one 2 mana and not 3. But to play the hare it will be 3 mana.

If Blizzard insists on keeping evolve in standard, at least fix this stupid cheating mana combos.

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Much like the problem with Rez priest, they need to fix a fundamental mechanic here, which is that mogu should cost on the board what he actually cost to play from hand. I.e his cost should either dynamically update or get fixed once he is played. This would have also made a nerf to Conjurers calling unnecessary.

Bunnies combo, eh, it’s a two card combo that is moderately strong. Yeah, on turn 4 it is pretty powerful, but you’re chances of drawing it aren’t great. It certainly is no more busted than IF/DS shenanigans.

1 Like
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Don’t flood the board and control theirs. That and run Unseen. I’ve made them pop evolve on totems plenty. Always love “Oh nice evolve…would be a shame if they were all murlocs…”

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Evolve must go.

But in the meanwhile let me help you beat other Shaman players.

  1. Weapons based aggro. Weapons don’t feed Mogu and MCT and the Shaman has little protection for their face. Rogue does this best; Warrior is fantastic against Shaman, but not so good against everything else.
  2. Heavy Control. Control Warrior and HW Paladin demolish Shaman, but Res Priest is bad against Shaman.
  3. Highlander Secret Hunter is still a fantastic deck.

I am not claiming you will have a 100% WR, but I have lost to these with a turn 3 Hare, Coin, and Evolve, and the data backs them up as good options. So you don’t have to feel like you have to play aggro or control and be competitive against Shaman and the field in general.

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I play a lot of control shaman and any other shaman other than Quest shaman is pretty much a win typically unless I just get hosed on cards(murloc and draw no aoe even though I have 5 baseline and other ways to generate).

I’d def trade evolve for devolve though or White Eyes.