I mean if you want a broken meta why not just play yugioh? It’s hyper paced and unbalanced why bring that here?
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I think most people would probably prefer a diverse meta with a little imbalances like in journey to un’goro and knights of the frozen throne. When some cards are just getting way too good like in kobolds and catacombs people started to play less.
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One of the biggest issues with the card is its ubiquity and how it helps destroy class identity. It gives every class access to spell damage and insane draw. If this card was a mage legendary I would not have any complaints. Instead, you have to see it over and over again in every class and archetype. A neutral spell damage/spell draw card is better than any card mage has gotten in years. That is absurd to me from just a design perspective.
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That makes no sense. If someone has 70% then someone has 30% and they are oppressed by the netdeckers.
The meta “auto-balances” a little by targeting the OP decks with teching but that has limits after a point.
E.g. Reno had no limit to its oppression against minions at late game. It WOULD wipe them well.
if these devs had half a brain that would have happened already
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Isn’t that 1st or 2nd most played expansion ever?
It didn’t stick for me like this did, I’m not sure the comparison works.
I liked playing that on PC against the computer (Kaiba, etc), but never collected the cards or played it against other people
I’m not sure which part of the rock-paper-scissors you didn’t understand. There will be other matchups which are 70-30 in your favor to balance it out
In general, draw is too cheap across the board. If oracle is changed then I think we need to revisit some other cards as well. Adding 1 mana to the cost of many draw cards would go a long way.
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Oh, I think people actually do get happier when things are (relatively) balanced as opposed to unbalanced…
…it’s just that even during those times, people will still complain and say this is ::Simpson’s Comic Book Guy voice:: worst. meta. EVER.
You missed the final part of what you quoted. Sometimes an imbalanced part of the game is so powerful that you can’t even counter them reasonably.
Or if you do counter them you do it in a way that reduces you into a “counterer” and not an original deck that you want o play.
E.g. imagine you want to play large minions after mid-game and Reno exists in the game unnerfed and in good decks.
Say goodbye to your Dungar druids that people wanted to play so they wouldn’t be able to play that at all.
No
People who usually don’t complain at all are now complaining, me included
Obviously, that’s not a real proof of my statement, and I don’t have one, I’m just stating my experience/intuition on this one
This doesn’t happen. It simply cannot happen, because there are enough different playstyles offered that each one always has a weakness to the other
If you’re countering a Dungar Druid, you’re opening yourself to aggression, as it was during the Control Warrior era, which was basically a full-blown aggro meta
Basically, the idea here is, and I believe many people will know it’s true, at least intuitively, that if you have a rock-paper-scissors meta, the game will balance itself automatically, like a real complex system always does.
If you don’t, if every change happens because of manual “fixes”, you don’t even have a system, let alone a complex one.
EDIT: Obviously, you always have a system, but it’s a simple input-output one in latter scenario
You’re not countering Dungar with the unnerfed Reno. You delete the entire concept of decks that rely on a board of big minions.
This was explained well by ZachO on a podcast during its recent nerfs (“thanks” ZachO (where were you before the nerf?)).
Also wrong.
Cycle giants Rogue and Painlock were tier 1 at the same time. It’s not the big-minion decks which suffered because of Reno, it’s any deck with late-game expectations.
This included even Rainbow Sif Mage, because Warrior could prevent your pop-off turn by playing Reno, preventing you from duplicating Sif, which means no lethal, considering their armor gains.
Personal opnion here.
- The game did not really change as much it uses too.
- The balance changes on this year where extra weird in particular.
- People are so utterly wrong on what is bad RN that hear people will actively make it worse.
One example of dumb is the stuff that will need to happen to fix this?
Early rotations.
Cards that still in standard affect how the next set is made. So if you have something like unkiliax cards that can remove even unkiliax make basically anything that depends on it’s own body unplayable.
- I don’t know what this means. At times, it seems exactly the same as I remember it before, but at times I don’t even recognize it.
- Agreed, but I found the pattern. They’re artificially, manually, making it too balanced. Their updates are 100% effective, if that was their goal. However, people SHOULD STRIVE for perfection, but never achieve it. When you DO achieve it, you will notice, it’s not so perfect anymore.
- true.
One thing with balance is that many decks hit out of the top this year where decks with a decent learning curve.
I’m talking this compared to other hearthstone decks so take this with a grain of salt.
I saying this from some time but they need to strive for a minimal treshold on the learning curve of their game.
I not saying to never ever make decks that are easy to play but the worlds of the average player and the legend player need to be separated.
Decks that are basically you playing the green card have to live in the bottom and even enforced to the bottom if necessary while cards that provide some challenge on how you use it have to be made powerfull and even prevented from being powercrept with buffs if necessary.
Of course this also means an actual effort so all classes get said learn curve going and ignore people saying that X skillset is more worth than Y skillset.
So people whinning about RNG should be just ignored.
I’m not sure I see things the same way
They’re naturally balanced in a way where, if a deck is overly easy to play, then it’s also easy to counter and it has serious limitations.
If it didn’t, it wouldn’t be easy to play. It’s the lack of alternative options what makes a deck easy to master, and that’s the very thing which makes it limited on the competitive levels.
With that said, it follows that not a single easy to master deck can be found on the top of the top. If it’s there, it’s not as easy as it seems.
I say it isn’t enough.
Not because you’re not correct about it but because the other side of the coin very often does not get the opposite treatment.
Be it for popularity or because some people tilt really hard on some.
Oh but it has and it has changed in a BIG way in the last two years. There is FAR FAR Too much cheap and efficient card draw that exists in the game. If you took most of that away you would fix most if not all of the issues with the current play patterns of the game.
Unfortunately that excess card draw is good at making the game super friendly to mobile players looking to play and end a game in under 6 minutes or less. They will never go back to a time before that so the game will always be a hyper mess.
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Played by priest mains and aggro mains. I might not have a quantifiable number to back that up, I did experience the same thing with cataclysm wow expansion in particular, it started out strong but people getting bored of the metagame real quick and play less, only logged in for daily quests at least those were from my friendlists.
I think that was the expansion when that degenerate carnivorous cube interaction being exploited in warlock as well.