I decided I should preface this with: I love Hearthstone. This is not a smear campaign, whatsoever. This is solely a problem I’ve noticed, and am noticing, more and more as Control Warrior is a popular class right now.
I’d say my winrate versus Control Warrior is about 50-50. Nevertheless, this is the worst class to play against, for me. We thought warlock’s healing was bonkers. However, imagine gaining upwards of 100 armor in a single match. That is ludicrous at best, and horrific at worst.
I’m not one to rant about the game – I love this game. However, consistent armor gain, combined with removal, and even threats on top of all of that is crazy. And, if that wasn’t enough, School Teacher allows for even more armor gain. We desperately need an armor tech card to help manage dealing with these CWs.
Is it just me?
Edit: I am not advocating to remove armor from CW altogether. But, toning it down would be reasonable. A good example of fair armor gain is Amulet Mech Mage. While it gains plenty, it isn’t enough to virtually cancel you out from ever dealing enough damage have a shot at winning.
Edit: I am more than willing to change my mind if anyone(s) can provide me with a valid argument in defense of all of this armor.
3 Likes
Well this is kind of what I was getting at when I tried to mention druid’s 2000+ armor gain in a previous post.
In a multiplayer battle where two players have to deal 30 damage to each other to win, give or take some percentage of armor or healing, the fact that crazy numbers like that exist for armor is totally inconsistent with any other gain for heroes in hearthstone.
Platebreaker doesn’t fit in most decks nowadays so I agree that maybe there should be a more flexible tech card for running against armor gains (that is if they don’t want to try and meddle with the armor issues directly).
Right now I played against warrior with burgle rogue and get luck with my replayed Pyroblast hitting the opponent face, both player without decks and, no exageration, I need to hit his face with more than 150 damage to win the freaking game.
2 Likes
Remember this guy?
I am thinking a minion that, for while the turn it is played, allows your minions to ignore armor.
That seems like it could be majorly broken. What about a card where it reduces your opponents armor to 1 for that turn only?
That could work, too!
I’m trying to count how many armor gains are in Control Warrior. I’ll edit this once I finish and add together the armor gains.
Edit: I count 56 armor gain. This count excludes School Teachers’ nagalings, and Igneous Lavagorger. It’s madness!
2 Likes
I think bringing back shield block was a terrible decision, that card was in every non-aggro warrior deck for 7 years.
2 Likes
I love the playstyle of armoring up and becoming almost impossible to kill. It’s a good counter to a lot of combo decks and other lame OTK stuff that depends on specific HP caps.
I think 2000 is too much, but 50-100 extra armor throughout the course of a game is reasonable enough. A mechanic that can prevent/offset ~50 damage per game is comparable to stuff like healing or freeze mechanics. Healing undoes damage already done, freeze prevents damage from being done at all, and armor protects against damage that hasn’t been done yet.
Seems comparable, to me. Armor is specifically good against combos and burst damage, which gives it its own unique niche.
2 Likes
I understand that, and appreciate the armor CW can gain. However, most decks are not equipped to handle it. It isn’t exactly niche, because it counters just about everything else. I’d just like to see some counter to it, somehow.
What comes to mind is Platebreaker (image below). This minion may be over-the-top, however. I’d like to see a card that allows for hitting through armor, even if only for a single turn.
3 Likes
Armor has to keep up with damage. Armor seems like a lot because damage is bonkers.
Armor is better than healing. That’s why control priest sucks and control Warrior is great.
And despite all that armor, control Warrior still gets mauled by mech paladin. That’s how crazy good mech paladin is.
8 Likes
Armor basically increases a player’s health-pool. Remember, this is in a game designed for, generally, 30 health.
In response to Mech Paladin, what do you believe is the most problematic card in the deck?
I’m definitely being salty, and do apologize. I rarely get tilted, and cannot recall the last time I have become that. I am just growing increasingly tired of armor gains pushing warriors completely out of reach of lethal by most ‘normal’ decks. I don’t play priest, which evidently is a very good counter to CW in all forms represented on HSReplay.
Sigh.
1 Like
the Armor Gain synergy with warrior cards like the 1 mana spell nuke literally K.O to single enemy minion or the 4 mana 4/5 DRAGON TAUNT + literally K.O. effect too, or the 0 mana cost CHEATED 5 dmg AoE are a BIG JOKE…
in almost every game (non Quest) the warriors can easilly pump the Armor to be like +20 Health EASY, all with the 3 mana 8 armor spell or 3 mana 5 armor draw a card and other…
Warrior has so much single, AoE removals, hes literally better in this than a Warlock ATM + the mana cheating and “dmg cheating” with armor synergy…
and i really dont understand why still they dont give some anti armor cards for standard, and i dont mean FULL armor DESTROY, NOO, but somethink to help in dealing with this “empty” stat…
back to mage for a moment, in the pure aggro mechs deck the amulet combo draw with the minion = 2x +10 armor + eventually the 8 armor secret, which are like 22 at minimal to up max 36 armor per game by sacrificng 6 slots or 4 slots for the combo to get +20 armor…
PS: The lifesteal should be reworked, for me if its a lifesteal card/minion effect, it should LIFESTEAL LIFE, just pure 30 health down, not the secondary condition stat like was ARMOR, its unlogical, and adding some more depths to this woudlbe interesting…
2 Likes
I give Amulet Mech Mage a pass because it’s manageable. Say this mage runs two Ice Barriers, and two Evokers combined with Drakefire Amulets. Now, that’s plenty of armor. However, this pales in comparison to what CW can do.
There absolutely needs to be some sort of tech option to break through this armor, even if it is a single turn effect.
I hate to use this argument, but this is a game, and we play games for fun. The ability to gain so much armor is antithetical to fun. Heck, is it even fun for the warrior to gain this much armor? I find the entire archetype BORING.
Patiently waiting for Mand’s take. These are usually meaningful and may change my opinion.
1 Like
This problem is not one truly of Warrior, it’s pervasive and endemic to all classes and decks.
Decks are simply too strong. They do too much of the thing they’re supposed to do, for turn after turn after turn.
I had a game today that was my curse warlock against mech paladin. I’d clear the board, he’d refill with about 30 health worth of mechs some with divine shield. I’d clear it again, he’d plop another round. On and on this went four or five times. If I didn’t have yet another of my seven board clears, I’d have died from any of his refills immediately. And the first turn he didn’t refill, I loaded him up with 26 curse damage for lethal.
Decks are just too strong.
12 Likes
You are entirely correct. When the business model is to perpetually power creep with the intent on selling these oveerpowered cards… I see no end in sight.
A careful, and general power reduction needs to be made here at some point across the board.
@Mand, do you think this will ever be possible?
1 Like
They tried. Year of the Raven. People panned Witchwood because it was “weak” and “didn’t change the meta.” Boomsday had some creativity but overall was received poorly. And Rastakhan I believe is the worst performing set on sales in Hearthstone history.
So, that’s what it would take. A full year of low-to-zero impact sets to allow for a rotation to reset Standard. And they tried, and the players rejected it outright. Look what happened next.
2 Likes
Can you come up with any other worthwhile solutions? What comes to my mind is an increase from character-health to 40-50.
1 Like
Health cap is only one axis, you need to hit them all.
No, there isn’t an easy solution. But if I had to pick a starting point, I’d cut out pretty much all mana cheating from new sets and significantly reduce the card draw available. Slow down the game, make it so that you can do fewer things on a turn instead of more and more forever.
That, and just make minions with effects weaker. There has always been the n/n/n+1 baseline vanilla minion statline, but now we not only have that baseline with effects, it’s starting to be over-statted minions who still get effects. It’s ludicrous.
Colossals are unfortunately one step in the direction of superpowered turns. I do love their design and had they come out in day Un’goro it would have been great. But surrounding them with everything else, they just help contribute to the same problem.
3 Likes
So a control meta isn’t the utopia it was painted as. Who knew!
2 Likes
Who painted it as utopia? That person was very wrong! 
I began Hearthstone as a control player. I had always played priest in WoW, and so it felt fitting to be a priest in Hearthstone too. I lost interest quickly, however. Nowadays, I prefer decks like Beast Hunter (is that mid-range?).
1 Like