Control needs more tools, Blizzard!

Multiplayer Discussion
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When they introduced the new cards, Priest was highlighted with its awesome and cool game ending questline.

Do you ever see one Priest finish the questline or even play its questline? NONE.

Now that even control Warrior, the golden standard, cannot do anything to counter Warlock’s retarded questline, shouldn’t Blizzard add some tools for control players now?

You have to offer some tech cards to at least delaying the questline. A turn or two will be nice, depending on the tech cards’ rarity.

Half of the players DO NOT WANT TO PLAY rush games.

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I faced about 4 mirror quest priests that had perfect draws. They literally played 2,3,4,5,6,7,8, play reward, turn 10 they had the shard in hand. While i couldn’t draw 3cost entire matches. And 3 cost is majority of my deck.

4 TIMES i’ve seen it happen! Not even mad, that was some cosmic luck on their behalf.

But yeah, otherwise, i agree that the game needs to slow down a bit. I just wish they removed warlock’s fatigue transfer, mages ignite infinite shuffle and shaman’s double spell to only cast once per turn. That’s it.

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I agree except for shaman. I think it’s very fair. It’s super powerful, but, it’s possible to heal through it if you’re a warlock. Paladin can overhwhelm it.

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I’m on the fence with it. Many times i’ve faced ridiculous turns of filling entire board with either serpentshire or wolf taunts AND filling their entire hand with spells. Don’t get me started on the 3cost summon two 10 cost minions haha.
Guess i faced a lot of lucky shamans that always discovered a couple of overdrafts so their overload meant nothing. No punishment for over the top plays.

That’s the thing i’m salty about in recent hearthstone matches. Here i come for a fair fist fight and my opponent pulls out a knife. xD

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The worst is that freaking spell that discovers a minion equal to the amount of Overload cards played. The pool of 10-cost minions is so small that they almost always get that elemental that’s 7/7 and resurrects itself.

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Yep. It synergizes perfectly. You’re gonna cast 10+ overloads easily if you’re running a quest so it costing 3 seems a bit overtuned.

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Shaman has recently got a 1 mana deal 3 and repeat and people are complaining it is too strong.
There is an upcoming shaman nerf and if they are listening to popular demands, this card will be nerfed.

Good control cards are hated more than good aggro cards for some reasons…

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I would “fix” that card the same way i would fix the problematic 0cost flesh giants. To make it scale/discount only when it’s in your hand. Seems fair?

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I think that would actually kill off the card since while giants start off as a 8-10 mana 8/8 that can be played for 0 on turn 4-6, the spell actually starts off as a 3 mana summon a 1 drop minion that’s pretty bleh to mulligan.

Warlock’s tamsins while weaker is kinda technically like a 3 mana brukan with some upsides like you don’t pay overload twice, you can store the cards, and you can pick new cards.

I think a effect like swapping Tamsin’s and Brukan effects with something like “Your shadow spells cast twice this turn (on the same target)” and something like “Whenever you cast a spell, add a second copy to your hand with 0 cost that doesn’t re overload you” would be a buff if you could swap.

I feel like making it work only hand would be pretty awful though.

Charged call is extremely weak to topdeck any portion of the game as a 3 mana summon a 1 mana minion. it’s only after you’ve played like 8-9 overload cards. And that often takes like turn 7-9+ . Many classes are cheating like 16-20+ mana worth of value on turn 5, or handbuffing. By stormwind terms, two vanilla ten drops on turn 10 is kinda slow. Just good value since you can get taunt on them or summon twice.

The card is pretty bleh when it’s casted once. And it starts off scaling at 1 mana. It’s a card that’s only ever played when it’s strong, but spends 50% of games sitting in hands at 1-7 mana until the brukan turns.

You only play it when it’s good, not when it’s weak so it sits in hand a lot. Just like Tirion did in old pallys. You focus on when it gives value, but never when it came too slow to ever provide any, or was a dead 3 mana summon a 2 drop against a face hunter rushing turn 5 lethal.

People forget how face hunter can easily just get face lethal by turn 5 clear or not. Warlock has likely already played 0 mana 8/8 giants on turn 5 and raise deaded them twice while the shaman’s charged call was on 3-4 mana minions.

Despite looking sticky, lots of modern meta decks can clear it, surprisingly more often then you expect.

Pally can drop a 1 mana 1/1 divine shield. (Potentially already handbuffed to 4/4 or 8/8), and have it trade, or put a blessing of authority on a single divine shield and trade twice with a 5 mana +8/8 buff or even clear both the same turn with a battlemaster rush to get lethal the next turn. or Samuro clear.

Warlock can clear it surprisingly often, just by dropping a tamsin, soul rend, or already contesting with giants or killing the shaman with giants before they ever got there.

Or just killing the shaman with fatigue and outdraws and a bigger hand vomit of 0 mana 8/8s, raise dead, and the other 1 mana 8/6s, 6/6s, 5/4s, etc.

It’s a very strong payoff combo, but still you only play the card when it’s good. Half the time when a shaman dies holding it in their hand you never see since the card spent it’s time sitting in hand waiting for turn 10.

You can reliably discover some 10 cost minions, but that’s probably just more about the limited standard pool than a card design issue though tbh.

Warlock can arguably do all the same stuff on a 3 mana tamsin + 0 cost copy for new targets and has generally stronger cards, hero power, draw and mana cheats.

The payoff without a charged call being doubled is pretty mediocre for turn 8-10+ plays. What. You can spend 3 mana to lightning bolt someone’s face twice, or cast a overdraft that doesn’t do anything on the second cast?

The deck is good, but i’d argue without the double charged call, Brukan doesn’t have a lot of stronger payoffs without it than than warlock gets from a 3 mana 1/3 tamsin honestly.

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Yeah let nerf every class so we can have priest at the top of the meta, with control sleeper deck and a ‘‘I win’’ finisher card.

That’ll be so fun ! I’m on.

2 Likes
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Dude - you really do write too much. Boil it down so it can be done on a toilet break :smiley:

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but wouldnt let you use it as a win condition you build up during the game

so its a terrbile idea

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I think shaman without the reward of charged call, might kill the card or shaman’s identity as a psuedo control deck.

If you took away the reward, it would have no reason to try and stall for a lategame, and just be forced to go all in to the weaker doomhammer build.

We’d see it less motivated to control and more “hit face to 0 before every other deck becomes impossible to outvalue” mode.

And that wouldn’t be conductive to making a deck that wants to control. it already can’t outvalue a lot of greedy decks like warlock. Pally is already 50 50 but might flip to 30 70 with such a change.

It might have no reason to go for lategame without a reward, and just smorc or doomhammer faces instead and lose some identity to become another generic smorc deck, and where’s the fun in that?

Hand only buffs have been done before, and charged call is already one of the slowest scaling ‘cheats’ in the meta. It already takes near like 10 turns to discount it.

Making it hand only kills the card or makes it as slow as a quest priest you have to hold in hand. Warlock frequently gets like 5-10x discounts for every 2-3 overload cards you can play, so it’d just scale really slowly and could kill the card easily.

We already have a priest’s version of charged call, that summons a 7 mana minion if they play a single card more expensive than it. Unsurprisingly, the card is dead.

Warlock scales much faster than other classes, as seen with priest vs warlock flesh giant. Warlock gets giants to 0 way before priest gets the giant to 4. I think the same would happen with charged call. Any change made 1 to 1, would benefit the warlock a lot more since it discounts much faster.

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charged call is a control shaman win condition

so no surprised to see people calling for it to be nerfed i know how much people here hate control decks

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Quest shaman isn’t a control deck. More like a hybrid as it can be played as aggro/tempo/control etc.

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you can choose to focus on one of those thats why i like the questine

compared to mage or warlock you have way more freedom on the deck type you want to build with it

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Yeah but the options are pretty sparse. It does have the potential make a lot of turn 9+ plays and i’ve had it go turn 20 to 25 in some control priest vs quest shaman mirrors. (The control priest stole the charged calls, and the fireheart was on bottom of the deck.

(Game w/o Charged call with Priest. Nobody had a play for 20 turns lmao. )
Anyways i was playing a brukaned shaman against a control priest and i kinda quickly realized that after the priest cleared the limited copy of threats i had available, i was getting a game where all my threats were at the bottom of the deck and my charged calls were gone.

We both kinda sat at full hp for 20 turns. Vs a normal game of using the charged calls to race them down or threat.

We actually didn’t have any threats to play. I had double aoe lifesteal landslides and a few discovers, but i never hit anything good.

I also played their threats as well, so they didn’t have anything good either.

Turns out quest shaman, brukan or not can only play like 3 mana lightning bolts for 6 damage or discover guidance. Unfortunately they were at the bottom of the deck.

Just in general nothing happened for 20 turns. There was a fireheart in the deck that was literally never drawn even though the game went to the last 17 to 5 cards for both players. 5 turns away from fatigue.

I think the game literally ended after 5 board clears on both side because i started hitting them with a 1/1 totem and some 1/1 elementals off that 3 mana, deal 2, summon a 1/1 for every damage card.

I guess… you could try building a fatigue(?) deck without charged call. But uh… That sounds like reintroducing a problem they wanted to get rid of honestly.

(Would you play a turn 7-10+ quest reward without a fast payoff?)
If you don’t have any threats or payoff to look forward too, why would anyone even go after a Charged call-less brukan that needed 15/30 cards in their deck, just to do… nothing?

I mean it’s good now, but if charged call was a dead card, there’s half of the reason to run overload gone since you don’t have any brukan power turns past aoe or 6 damage lightning bolts.

Quest mage goes online on turn 5-7 and otks within 1-2. Brukan goes online like turn 7-9 and can take 2-10+ turns to close out a game if you don’t draw anything good.

If charged call was hand only, it’d still be a iffy card in mulligan, trash in the middle, and awful as a topdeck. Would kill the card. Might lead to long threatless games or really drawn out mirrors.

If both sides cleared the other and ran out of threats, we might have a return of 20+ minute mirrors vs priest again if both shamans successfully cleared the other and ran out of threats. Which is pretty possible without charged call tbh.

And i don’t think people want 20+ turn mirrors honestly. I call it control since it beats aggro and has turn 10+s in the deck even though the curve is low, you often spend more turns consuming more mana than you do even with decks with 8 drops ironically with double overload.

I’m sure if brukan didn’t overload twice in a less hostile meta you might see more 6-8 drops in there. It’s a deck that’s pretty interested in late game power plays.

I find myself unironically spending much more turns feeling constrained by using every bit of 10 mana between turns even if the curve is lower than my decks with 5x 7-9 cost card decks with razas, dragonqueens, alexstrazas and rags and more.

I never had to worry about rag costing me 4+ mana on my next turn, or my 1-3 mana cards costing me 2-3+ mana each on future turns.

So while people can easily be led astray by the low curve, it’s not uncommon for it to play the deck and find itself watching the 10 mana crystals mathing it out in advance if it has a big hand.

On the other hand, plenty of people just smorc with it, and yeah it’s really a hybrid deck, jack of all trades, master of one (anti aggro / Board control) deck.

It can easily play Tempo, Smorc or control, But i mean yeah, plenty of people just hit face with it, and when you can’t outvalue 1-2 turn death from hand or 0 mana 8/8 giants, you kinda have to rush face.

It can have some pretty control like matchups in the mirror, or against other control style decks though which i like. The 8 mana lifesteal aoe brukaned is like the closest approximation i had to reno or Artificer + thalnos + spirit lash combos. So i like it.

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Common · Minion · Forged in the Barrens · Can

Just one of several examples. You’re welcome. :kissing_heart:

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It’s too strong because you can overload more mana than is available the following turn.

I think overload should be limited to the mana available next turn. You can’t overload three on turn one, etc.

Right? It’s okay that there’s no heavy control in this meta for a change. Lots of players really like this. It will return at some point for sure.

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Control vs the meta

Your name helped me make this connection lol