The top deck Reno.
Drawing into the 2nd board clear.
Getting the perfect curve despite 80% of the deck being > 4 mana.
These are all just the result of pure and simple luck.
Aggro/Tempo is consistent by design.
It’s almost impossible to have a bad curve because the average mana cost is low.
The outcome of the game doesn’t hinge on drawing a single swingy card.
Decisions actually come down to playing around the tools that control has and/or maximizing damage before key mana thresholds when control has the opportunity to turn things around.
Sorry control purists. Just a public service announcement that in the aggro/control matchup, the aggro player is the one making more meaningful decisions.
6 Likes
Honestly, I don’t feel like in HS that either side in most metas in this matchup are making a ton of decisions. Aggro has to kill prior to stabilization and ever since roughly KoFT Control has been given very, very strong stabilization tools which make it VERY tough for aggro to ‘slow roll’ around a board clear from Control.
Control fully involves, as you stated, breaking the Aggro players board once or twice depending on deck. The only deck Control can have issue breaking is Murloc Shaman because of Underbelly.
In HS I feel the only tough games come from same archetypes facing off or some of the few true MR decks we see. The Control-Aggro, Tempo -vs, and Combo-Control games are lacking imho.
5 Likes
Was this ever not the case? For pretty much any Midrange or Control deck, the question is whether or not you draw the tools to survive Aggro’s initial onslaught and can stabalize to push back.
If non-Aggro decks drew their tools with the consistency that Aggro curves out, every one of those matchups would look like Control Warrior VS Odd Paladin back in Boomsday/WW.
I’ve run into a string of people on ladder that are awfully proud of themselves for having certain cards in hand and having the “skill” to play them.
Also the common forum argument is “aggro so brainlezz” when it’s actually the more challenging deck to pilot.
Basically I’m tilted and people are idiots. The exact ingredients at the specific time needed to create a HS forum thread.
Forums have people over generalize… Who knew, lol.
Certain Aggro decks like Face Hunter, Murloc Shaman, or Mech Hunter and Paladin in Wild are fairly easy to pilot.
Same can be said for Baku Warrior, Resurrect Priest, and Boom Control Warrior where they were very easy Control decks to Pilot.
Just comes down to the deck on how #EZ it is.
1 Like
To be fair, trying to beat a slower deck with Aggro can often boil down to “curve/snowball as hard as possible before they can do something about it”. If you aren’t playing something with considerable and persistent board-reloading abilities, playing around larger removal can often lead to them stabilizing and wiping you anyway with some of the heavily impactful cards we have access to nowadays. Aggro mirrors are for more skill-testing than Aggro VS Control.
I recommend a Snickers bar.
Folks think I’m being snide whenever I say that but seriously, they’re freaking delicious.
3 Likes
I just dropped from rank 1 to rank 3 two stars.
I need something stronger.
I have a bottle of Fireball at home.
Sounds like you need to go meme it up in Casual until you can de-tilt for a bit.
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Luck dictates the cards you draw. Skill determines how well you read, maximize and optimize all your options.
The biggest example I have of this is Cyclone Mage: you could wipe me with the floor if I ever played this deck.
In the hands of a skilled mage player like Wardrum, he’s going to wipe the floor with you.
As with all games of chance, you can do everything right and still lose to luck. It doesn’t mean absence of skill - it just means in that specific match, luck wasn’t in your favor.
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Then you are angry because people say that what they like is the best, whatever they like.
Before questioning yourself that it is more intelligent between control or aggro you should ask yourself if you can get angry at an idiot that does not affect you without being the same.
It also seems that people forget HS was presented as a super simple game without the intention of generating mechanics that complicate the player’s decisions, so to start the mana system is automatic.
And in the end it is not a matter of whether it requires skill, because it requires it, perhaps it is less than necessary to put a hat in the right place, but there it is anyway.
I remember back then during MSoG there was a debate about renolcok vs pirate warrior, which deck actually dictates the game, first time I read it it surprised me that pirate warrior pilot actually is the one who is in control to steer the direction of the game, I didn’t play renolock but I played reno mage back then and I have to say the statement has some truth behind it.
That does not mean pirate warrior is harder to pilot than renolock though
3 Likes
4-5 years of game for people only noticing this now.
It really depends from the aggro deck though…
For ex in Wild Tempo/secret mage is considered the best deck still it needs skill cause you need to know what to play when.
But decks like the old Pirate warrior were brainless imo.
As for the general rule though i d consider controll a lot more skillfull.
Why? Aggro is based on finishing the game as soon as possible. This gives you certain mana options as well as a limited amount of choises.
Controll is based on winning on late game. Therefore you get to make a lot more choises than you do in aggro for ex when to play a board clear.
That said long controll games can end up being boring and annoying, which is why i prefer midrange controll and tempo decks.
I’ve said this for years. For control its all about having the right card at the right time. And just by having the right cards at the right time, the control deck will win about 50% of the time. For the aggro deck having the right cards only wins 40%. The other 10%, you need to find the win.
Not in all cases. I’m not always sure if I need to use Implosion+plague, Defile+some minions etc. Not all control is brainless luck. But mostly youre right
when an agro player fights a control player and the control player draws his aoe just in time. What is then the situation:
A:the control player is lucky
or
B:the agro player is unlucky
or
C:a little bit of both
Or
D:humbug
And we can ask the same question vice versa.
Maybe the control player has build his deck well and did the mulligan correctly.
He could be 50% or more to have the right answer. Then what if he doesn’t?
Is the control player unlucky or the agro player lucky?
You will notice already here that there is no good option for the control player. If he got it he is lucky and if he doesn’t he is unlucky.
But the thing is,the rng in hs is shared. It is shared in any game for that matter.
My luck is my opponents disfortune and vice versa.
A dice gets rolled all the time,sometimes on my turn and sometimes on the opponents turn. But the outcome does effect both players.
In the end and on an abstract level it doesn’t matter who rolls the dice (though it feels like it does).
I feel like Rogue is easily making the most meaningful decisions, with its plethora of random cards coming out of nowhere, and strange multiclass combos. And it is certainly both aggro and control - in my experience losing to Rogue, they’ll end me and end all of my minions for giggles. With a ton of cards that cost next to no mana too.
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck to play against. What weird madness are they going to butcher me with today? The meta now is to play an unending siege of pressure, whether it’s aggro hunter or control warrior, and it takes its toll on people.
It is all for the worse. I can only hope we get a combo-heavy milieu soon.