Recently getting back into Hearthstone. I remember ages ago when they were toning down RNG for a more competitive experience. After playing against a few mage decks…they didn’t go that route. I actually enjoy RNG based cards a lot more for fun and interesting matches. I have no idea how competitive play works these days though with RNG this abundant. What are people’s thoughts on this?
RNG has always been present in Hearthstone, and card games in general. RNG doesn’t make games inherently uncompetitive, but there is an argument that Hearthstone can be a little too heavy on RNG sometimes, especially with Mage.
But there is a huge difference in skill level between the top Legend players and the noobs in Ranked.
Some people would tell you that the game loses its competitive integrity, but I don’t think the presence of luck precludes displaying skill.
Notice, there is still a skill hierarchy on display, with high ranking players consistently achieving high mmr getting to high ranks, and that manifests from the metal ranks all the way up to pro play (from what I’ve seen watching those matches).
Yeah some games are decided by rng, but certainly not most of them, and even with a lot of variance, your decision making definitely can improve your win rate.
I think the best point of evidence for this is all the Legend players complaining about how easy it is to get to Legend since the ladder rework. Notice, it’s almost all Legend players touting this (Legend players can get to Legend, I know, shocking).
So you definitely see results when you get better at the game, and if anything, that’s more consistent now. Any given game might get swung by rng, but multiple games will still reflect player skill.
I’m catching up on some recent matches, I feel it also makes for a more enjoyable watch. I remember back at launch the RNG was heavily based on what card the player would draw next. But the viewer new what card they needed and what actions needed to take place for a victory to be achieved. Now anything can happen to turn the tides.
hs is all rng, hs has become a dice game.
To much rng imo. Mage the biggest offender.
As others have mentioned, Mage is currently the single biggest offender with most other decks relying on relatively low amounts of RNG to do well.
The far bigger issue when it comes to Hearthstone and competitive play is the card generation which has reached an inflection point in this games history. You can literally play standard/competitive games where you end up playing more generated cards than cards that started in your deck. Furthermore, it is common at higher levels of play to go “fishing”, which is essentially relying on RNG and card generation to find an answer to your opponents threats. Normally, this “fishing” should work rarely enough it shouldn’t affect competitive play; however, that is certainly not true in practice. It is quite common to see games won or lost based on a random card that someone generates (or in some cases a sequence of generation moves, for example azure explorer -> kalecgos -> critical spell to react to situation, for example Puzzle Box.)
In this sense, hearthstone is in a very bad place for competitive play.
way to try and discourage returning players, mage do have some random cards but they are not as prevalent on ladder as you make it out to be. also, i dont know what “high level” you play on but on actual high level players prefer cards where they know the outcome over cards that generate an unknown outcome - which is why they overall were fine with DH and warrior because while the decks were strong you also knew exactly what to expect from the deck
I play at legend currently, but I haven’t been sub 100 legend in a long time, currently 1000+. To get to sub 100 you have to try hard (I play probably 1-10hrs a week, to get higher in legend you usually have to crank the time up quite a bit.)
That said, getting to legend these days is fairly trivial by comparison to before the change to the ranking system, so it is not much of an accomplishment.
RNG fishing is a favorite tool to throw otherwise lost games at the level I play at. It’s quite common for the losing player to happily inject randomness by whatever means when they know they have a losing position. Sadly, this can “coin flip” the game far more often than not, resulting in a complete loss of player agency (why not just flip a coin and decide who wins before playing instead?)
The mechanism that yields consistent “coin flips” at my level of play is definitely card generation as it is available to every class and quite common to “fish” the correct answer to any specific threat. For example, the Demon Hunter you mentioned which doesn’t run card generation is actually an incorrect statement. Demon Hunters at legend run Vulpera Scoundrel exactly because it lets them fish for the correct response to any threat.
Vulpera Scoundrel was ran because it was the best replacement cards for the at that time nerfed cards, then the more aggro version outperformed vulpera and it aws cut for more aggro cards
I’m all for some RNG as it keeps each match fresh but lately the RNG and card generation has just gotten out of hand. I don’t feel like it’s competitive any more its just who gets the lucky dice rolls wins.
Yes, it is the strong/best card for the very reason that it can be used to “fish” for correct answers through card generation …
I’m not sure what aggro deck you are referring to? Maybe you have an unoptimized home-brew aggro deck you run?
Latest VS clearly puts Vulpera Scoundrel in the optimized list:
www.vicioussyndicate.com/decks/spellkin-aggro-demon-hunter/
I have not personally played as DH for a long time as I prefer higher skill cap decks, but I have played against plenty @ legend and on the way to legend and most I’ve come across run vulpera.
Fixed that for you. .
it was replaced by amani, brawlers, guardian etc for a more aggro version, then warglaives was nerfed and it was re-added because it once again is better then the other current cards
Mage is a mess these days, and unless the new release changes things, We will be seeing slot machine mage at least until the next rotation.
There are actually quite a few of the new cards that look like they should offer Mage more consistent ways to play, especially through the Spell Damage synergy cards.
Cram Session, Firebrand, Lab Partner, Ras Frostwhisper, and Combustion are all good cards that have little or no RNG to them.
And Primordial Studies, Brain Freeze, Mozaki, Devolving Missiles and Wand Thief are probably just solid options to run or at least discover/randomly generate, and they don’t actually have a lot of RNG in their effects.
So, there is a decent possibility for much less RNG-focused Mage to come together.
And with Spell Damage being pushed, basic cards like Frost Bolt are likely to be good options to run. (Low mana cost spells that can go face are some of the best options to combo with spell damage.)
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I am excited to try damage mage:) maybe call it Da’ Mage lol
And somehow I’m the childish one.
Some people would tell you RNG and huge power plays way above mana are part of every card game and that it actually doesnt make HS casual game. That it actually makes it more competitive because in environment like that requires precise planning and skill.
Reality is the game is kinda more flashy and you do not see any significant difference in skill when you see so-called pro playing the same deck as random diamond player.
Though HS being full casual game with simulated competitive environment isnt that bad at all. For example Ludo (or similar board games), dice game etc. are still fun and entertaining and I like them for very low skill requirement to win and have fun.