so everyone else were wrong at math and this guy is right …
really? I am not buying it
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I’m not claiming Bunny was correct and everyone was wrong, simply sharing for discussion purposes.
Right or wrong, the system still could be a lot better.
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So i have to play 2 hours a day now to earn the same amount I earned before by logging in and completing my daily quest which took what… 15-20 mins? Seems like a good deal? Oh and I can’t do my quests in tavern brawl any more which is where I did 80% of them before since I generally can’t stand ranked. Again, good deal.
Note - not sure who I replied to there. Meant to reply to the original poster.
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did you check the calculations? that part included that you in the old system played enough to get the 10 gold for 3 wins aswell, which you wont get in 15-20 min. otherwise you gain even more now compared to before
Assumptions:
In order to evaluate the system I have made a number of assumptions:
I looked at the Duels achievements and the Scholomance achievements. I assume that around 8800 XP are doable for a normal player in Scholomance and that someone that plays at least 1 hour a day gets a maximum of 7 wins in Duels during the entire rotation, this number increases with time spend. It turns out however that these assumptions are faily irrelevant on the economy of the system.
I set up 3 categories with people that play 1,2,3 and essentially made a graph for x > 3 hours played. In my opinion the new daily quests are much easier while the new weekly quests are slightly harder than the previous quests which gives slightly different quest completion ratios.
I assumed an old daily quests gave 57.5 gold on average, you earn 12.6 gold/hour with a 57% winrate and 9 min queue time, completely neglecting search time and either 350XP/hr or 400XP/hr in the new system. The real gold as well as XP earned should be below that due to queue time.
I’m sorry, why on earth would anyone read this when he makes these very ridiculous assumptions. He took duels into account? Why? There are going to be people who have no interest but the main mode in hearthstone, and I’m pretty sure that’s the majority.
He also assumes high winrates that the average player is not going to have, and quest completion from a viewpoint of a guy who has an entire collection completed.
So in other words, all he analyzed was how it would effect STREAMERS/PROS/and religous players like him.
God this is like all those idiotic “social experiments” on youtube till you realize they have no control groups, horrible methods, and would get laughed at by anyone who actually conducted proper sociological research.
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Let me help you with basic math:
64700 is indeed equal to 64700. So far, you’re doing well.
A massive chunk of that initial 64700 (this is not counting whether or not you paid for half of your XP with real money), came from earning achievements (please… correct me if I’m wrong - this is the critical part of basic math, and part of the Achievement: Adding more than two single-digit numbers).
If you play 10 secrets you get 10 Achievement points. Sounds simple.
After you get that achievement completed and earned that 10 XP, you now get to do it again, right? (let’s pause while the gears turn and smoke burns)
Not exactly. You probably spent Time-p1 (player time spent the first time on earning XP of any value) to get that 10 XP the first time. Now it’ll be Time-p1 + Time-pNn, (the initial amount of time it took to earn the first achieve plus the new amount of player time needed to get the next level achievement) to get the same amount of XP for the same achievement name, because you now need to play 10+X secrets to get that same 10 XP. It’s the same for all of the Achievements, except until they’re completed. Then you can’t earn that XP at all anymore.
5 achievement ranks, each at 10 XP would be:
Time-p1 + (Time-p1 + Time-pN1) + (Time-p1 + Time-pN1 + Time-pN2) + etc. etc.
I’ll be fair - this isn’t really basic math. It requires a little extra knowledge and competence of economic tax-scaling of a basic economy. We have gold and dust and time. The scaling factor and relationship between these is not aligned with how it was before to net the same rewards for the same costs (not even close, the longer the scale of time). In this new system, player time is less valuable, therefore more of it must be spent in-game (whether AFK or playing a mode you don’t want to) in order to continue to generate gold. Dust to gold relationship is relatively the same, but the time to earn said gold or dust has now made both of them far more valuable, but harder to get.
I’m really not surprised that this kind of math eludes the majority of players, and it really makes sense to those who have only been playing a short time. At the end of an equal amount of time spanning greater than 4 weeks, the return on investment of Time (T) becomes lower and slower.
It’s ok if none of this makes sense to you, because I believe you are entitled to be as educated and informed, or ignorant and misinformed as you want. Like I say at the poker table, it’s your money, you play how you want (as I scoop).
I will note: This is all much easier for players who paid for the expansion in the beginning. But dollar for dollar, they will earn less over the course of the expansion than they did before by the same math.
How did you get 10 xp for playing 10 secrets? I didnt think achievements gave XP unless it explicitly said that it did.
Most TBs offer extremely fast win rates when you figure out the mechanic (even for utterly random ones like that last one, where your minion played cast a random spell). You could win by T2, or concede by T8 and try again. TB doesn’t usually take as long as ranked/ladder because people are not usually thinking for their full rope on how to play one of the 3 cards in their hand.
It’s in the achievement. It’s Rank 1 of that achievement.
I don’t know what to tell you, man. It’s literally in every achievement what it takes to get that achievement.
You can also use the “left” and “right” icons to see what the other levels of achievements are that you’ve completed for that achievement series.
Yes. There are levels to achievments, but they don’t give xp, just achievment points. The only ones that give XP have a chest next to them.
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Apologies, you’re correct. Achievement points != XP. Thanks for that catch.
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There will ‘never’ be any true discussion, when different people look/calculate things differently.
The core of it is the ‘unknown’ formula for Exact exp gain for each scenario. (Or I may have miss out such info)
Great. Which once again proves that Blizzard lied when saying that people will earn the same amount of gold as they did before on all levels of play.
The ‘bigger value’ argument is super irrelevant because there’s no way old packs will compensate that gold that I planned on spending on the upcomming expansion. And if they want to compensate it with packs they have to give a lot more packs to grant me a solid amount of dust from disenchanting. But it’s not even worth arguing about because they specifically promised the same amount of gold and not the same amount of that mystical value.
These streamers should really make their simping less obvious.
P.S. Not arguing with you, Wardrum. I know that you’re only quoting him.
Zeddy actually did the math. If you look at his 9 ways to improve video…
Then Zeddy immediately proclaimed after stating gold should be about the same or possibly very slightly better, that Blizzard needs to double our XP.
BTW, here’s another take from Wild streamers, at the 20 minute mark.
Since people are talking about achievements, I do not feel like Bob’s Favorite Customer. The last achievement in that set only gives 20 orange points. C’mon man!
I think Silas should be the savior of Hearthstone. He could beat up the old tavern owner in a cinematic. Then he decides to give people all the stuff we get with the pass, plus Darkmoon Tickets. The shop then gets upgraded with Prize Vendor options for Tickets, like Dust, a Legendary of the Week, new clothes for Jaina, and other stuff up to an adventure of your choice that you don’t have and would otherwise pay cash for.
ITS NOT JUST THE EARNED GOLD THATS THE PROBLEM!!
people try and end the discussion with saying you earn the same/more gold now so why the fuss?
its that i have to jump through hoops and play stuff i have zero interest in.
“want this 1000xp? go play duels and win 2 games!”
NO. i dont want to play duels let alone play that mess til i get 2 wins. dont tell me just to easily complete it using a friend because then we are right back to how this stupid system makes me do dumb things for the xp.
im not playing a game anymore. im completing chores.
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option 1: re-roll quest you dont like
option 2: hop on the forums and complain that you dont like the quest you got
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option 3: kill the game by not financially supporting it.
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Is Bunnyhoppor’s math with or without the XP boost from the paid track?
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you guys remember when durids had 14 burst damage? back when handlock was the best deck. even before dr.boom? I member, hearthstone was so much fun back then.