Broken Mechanics

I’ve recently encountered a few broken mechanics IMO;

“If you have 10 mana crystals;” With 9 Mana crystals, use a coin, you now have 10/9. Technically you “have 10 mana crystals”. But it doesn’t trigger. Found out the hard way cost me the game because not only did I not heal myself, I used an extra 2 cards which triggered his 6/6 rat secret and prevented myself from being able to double trigger Shudderwock because I used my mana crystal. It’s frustrating because I’m looking at 10 mana crystals (10/9) but the card doesn’t highlight. It literally reads “if you have 10” and I do.

“Replay all other battlecries from cards you’ve played this game” Yet it doesn’t double trigger battlecries you’ve triggers twice. “From cards” supposed to negate this? Cause the battlecries were “triggered twice” “from that card” it doesn’t make sense why it only triggers once on battlecries you’ve double triggered. Again found out the hard way when I believed I had lethal because of double triggers and he survived because they only triggered once for each double.

“If your opponent has 4 or more”; This one I understand to an extent because the battlecry triggers individually and the opponent no longer has 4 minions, but I think it should trigger based on when it is played the condition was met. Basically it is saying that the battlecries include the if/when in them when the way I say it, if/when condition is met, then the battle cry, in this case “steal a minion” should trigger, and if its triggered twice, it should steal two minions regardless of if the if/when condition has changed because it was already met upon summoning. The if/when is basically considered apart of the ability which is counter intuitive.

(Although this does give the option for some battlecries that cannot possibly be triggered twice such as “if your health is odd restore 10 life” or “if your opponent has more 25 life deal 5 dmg”. Just a thought for future cards that are “OP” but cannot be abused by double trigger mechanics or recast mechanics)

“Whenever you cast a spell summon a 3 cost…”; Evolve doesn’t summon a minion before it is evolved. Yet every single other minion with abilities like this triggers first (Am I wrong?). Whenever I have seen a “whenever” ability, the moment it casts, before anything else, that card triggers, then the cast goes through, but with this interaction it evolves the minion before the card can trigger. This one is definitely off based on other cards that work exactly the same and trigger instantly before the spell or whatever triggers it is resolved/cast. Maybe I’m missing something and there is a difference in wording?

I’ve seen these types of inconsistencies in the past; one example I can think of is
Hobgoblin / Addled Grizzly. It used to be that minions summoned from spells wouldn’t trigger even if they met conditions. More recently I believe I’ve seen it trigger minions that were summoned by spells and also many other cards of the same type (Knife Juggler etc) trigger regardless. Not sure if I’m confusing the two (Hobgoblin / Addled Grizzly) and one does and one doesn’t trigger off spells, but either way it is confusing and inconsistent. I believe that it used to be it didn’t and they changed it but I could be wrong.

That’s all for now I’m sure there is more I can’t think of atm. It’s just annoying because there’s no way to know for sure until you do it and it can be the difference between a win and a loss.

Gives me another idea. Why not have a “training room” with a few dummies on opponents end and can try out various combos to see if/how they work. You could select starting mana, whether or not you have a mana crystal, reduce your deck size to 10, change starting health/armor, etc. Even select the board with AI that plays as it normally would and create situations. Then situations that have been verified to be beatable could be shared. I know MTG does the situation part of it but developers create them, it would be nice to have players create them and share them (Only if they can be passed). So the creators would have to complete it in order to submit it. The attempts by players could auto-rate the difficulty so ones that are passed frequently on first attempts would be 1 star, ones that take several attempts and/or aren’t passed after several attempts go up to 5 stars relative to other challenges 2-5 star.

  1. Omega mechanics check for permanent mana crystal and not temperorary one. The wording can be clearer but the mechanics is meant to be as such since the beginning.

  2. Each card only play 1 battlecry. You can double it with other means like brann or hero power but do not change the fact you only play that card once and replaying it without the heropower/ brann etc should not trigger it twice. The card itself did not say cast this battlecry twice.

  3. When you double trigger a battlecry, each trigger is a phrase on its own. So first check, there is 4 minions and steal one. 2nd check there is 3 minion and nothing happen. The checks isn’t only done once. In fact shudderwock cast each battlecry individually and each is a phrase on its own such that DR is resolved first before continuing casting. (meaning if you play wock with a lackey on board but the lackey die before weaponised wasp trigger, nothing will happen.)

  4. Seems weird. AFAIK all such effect should trigger before evolve, may be a bug but I never test before.

  1. Play (Hobgoblin) and summon (Grizzly) are not the same. A played minion must come from your hand, while it doesn’t matter where a summoned minion comes from.
  1. it works like that all the time. Sure, its just another confusing wording and any lack of guide, but its not a bug.

  2. If the minions isnt summoned even when the text states “when you cast a spell” then its a bug and should be reported because it should summon minion before the spells effect is triggered. (Compared to WIld Pyromancer where the text states “after you cast a spell” - first the spell effect is triggered, then Pyro deals damage)

EDIT: I have tested it and both Violet Teacher and Exotic Mountseller summons and minion BEFORE the evolve triggered (same for Mutate) so it works as intended. Or is there any other minion like that?

The second point is also inconsistent with Spirit of the Tiger, for example:
“After” implies the summoned X/X will not be affected by Equality or Shrink Ray.
But it do.
And that makes me sad.

Sounds like a bug as well.

It just looks like straight up lazyness to me.
But from merely looking at the card text, unless it has been stealth-fixed, it surely needs some “mending”.

Illadan stormage too. I did unstable evolve on that minion before and it summon the 2/1

I hear you guys on all points, when I titled this “broken mechanics” I didn’t mean to imply there was a bug, I believe(d) that these were coded this way intentionally, by broken I meant that the inconsistency among exact card types is “broken” in the sense that one leads you to believe it will work the same as another and when it doesn’t that to me is “broken” and/or needs special wording to set itself apart from like-cards that resolve differently.

The reason I decided to make this was the “When a spell is played summon a random 3-cost” because I was 100% sure that this would summon a 3 cost then evolve the board, or with a single target summon a 3 cost then evolve the targeted minion and when it didn’t I was sure this isn’t correct based on other cards that always trigger before the spell resolution.

The rest are nit picking at inconsistencies and/or poor wording. I can’t think of examples off the top of my head but I know there are cards that do work when they shouldn’t based on the re-check conditions. So I find it inconsistent when you “steal a minion if your opponent has 4+” and it steals only one because there is other “ifs” that are nullified and still trigger I just can’t recall the example.

Illadan Stormage is a perfect example of why I believed it would trigger as well as unstable evolve on other minions that always trigger first.

Omega I can live with, the double battlecries I can live with also but again seems inconsistent when it comes to things like res mechanics summoning 6x copies when only 1 entered the graveyard. I’ve literally seen 2x Ragnoros off a 1/1 token, then 3x more off those 2 even with 5+ other minions in the graveyard. So the original dies and then the res versions count as additional bodies in the grave. Khartut Defender is abused like this as well because the reborn mechanic adds additional bodies, so 2x summons = 4 bodies, once those 4 are res’d and removed there’s now 8x more, so 12x bodies, etc.

Point I’m making is how that mechanic is multiplied yet the battlecry is limited to 1x per summon just doesn’t seem equal especially considering they’re summoning entire 6-10 cost minions repeatedly, Khartut + N’Zoth + shuffled copies = game over if you’re not a priest with mass silence. Because there is very limited OTK options now and 6x Taunt reborn restore 3 health bodies is impossible to remove, with 15 N’Zoth shuffled in the deck, there’s no way to penetrate and even if you do you have to achieve lethal in that turn and/or the following turn with face damage that isn’t prevented by taunts. Even a priest who Silences and destroys everything will just face a fresh board next turn so why are such absurd combinations possible while other mechanics are limited?

And Hobgoblin / Grizzly is just dumb. There’s plenty of ways to +1/+1, +2/+2, +2/0, +3/0, they both happen while summoning which still gives 1 turn before they can be used where as cards like Bloodlust are instant OTK. Why nerf one over the other? I guess I understand back when it was released but now they should both trigger on any summoned minions period.

Tigers arent affected by Equality or Shrink Ray it seems.

I am getting 4/4 and 5/5 tigers so I guess it was fixed (no idea when because I have never played it :smiley: )

Hobgoblin has ALWAYS been on play, fact. I know this, its one of my all time fave cards. Spells summon minions, you dont play them, you cast the spell that SUMMONS them. And, no. I dont want an Odd Pally buff by making Hobgoblin on summon.

On release, and up until the new expansion was announced, things were kinda broken.

That’s great news!
This stupid interaction halted my future homebrew attempts.
Thanks for the info.

As for your concerns, Bowser:
Just make the buffed Hobgoblin cost 2 mana.
Problem solved.
No way it will be abused by aaaaany other archetype.
Especially not Thunderhead tokens in (Any) Shaman.

I can find the middle finger emote, but using it “contains a word not allowed” RandomDrunk :rofl:

Is that word “Flip”, “Finger” or “Bird”?

Because if it’s the latter, I do not mind.

its actually fu but apparently only when surrounded by colons?!?

I knew it! Fu…n was never allowed on these forums.

My disappointment is immeasurable.
So I shall pay Wardrum a visit on his farm.
It’s quite peaceful, there.

i actually got to use it once, the only person I saw use it. Maybe I was the cause for the emojis banning, as it was directed at Blizzard…

Omega is an effect of playing the card, and effects happen after paying the cost.

When you pay, the extra mana crystal disappears. Which means it is no longer there when Omega checks for mana count.

I respect that.
But you also admitted being the cause of every HS-problem ever.

Let’s just say: Fuq eet.

Nah, Im the cause of every problem in the world, even those that contradict each other.