With as many busted cards there are, if you do not have good synergy by turn 5, you are most likely going to lose. At the rate things now happen in BGs if you are not leveling and winning on curve, you will always be too far behind to catch up. There is no amount of stabilization that will get you to the point where you can keep up and level with the people who are ahead.
By turn 5 you need to be at least on 3 and not losing games. If you are losing games, that means you are not leveling to 4 next turn and there by getting left behind the pack. This will get exacerbated by the multiplicative card power increase that happens at 4 and above. So even though you try to stabilize, which you might be able to do, but highly unliklly, you will be too far behind the curve at that point to catch up.
The reason for this is because of how Hearthstone card pool works. There are limited options of powerful cards in the initial deck seed created for the game. The only way new cards get introduced is through tripling, hero powers, etc. So if you are not the first to the tier and cycling refreshes to get the best cards, you are most likely not going to get the cards due to being snatched up by other players. This creates a vicious cycle of perpetually losing due to not having the broken cards others already had the luxury of picking before you even got to the tier.Due to this garbage design decision, you either quit out or suffer the rest of the game. Great game design Blizzardo, bravo.
TLDR: There are is too much power in polarizing cards that if you do not have those cards in early game, along with that synergy due to bad RNG, you have no chance of winning.
I am positive that an analysis of top rated players games will prove you statistically, objectively wrong.
Edit: I mean, obviously being ahead is an advantage. I would expect the winning player to be ahead on turn 5 the majority of the time. But it’s probably closer to 65% of the time than 95% of the time.
This isn’t my experience at all and you’ve dramatically over simplified how to play proper, suggestion your own lack of expertise or a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the truth to complain.
I find that the more important thing is to not pick bad minions and not gamble on high risk plays that don’t create econ advantage.
The biggest skill separating players right now is exploiting the economy to increase tempo at the correct points.
Why not an analysis of other players than the top? Say between 3000 and 5000 mmr. middle of the road approach. if the bustedness is prevalent there in substantial amounts what does the top players games have to do with the issues plagueing the larger playerbase?
While I would agree it’s now much harder to come if you have losses in the first rounds, but it’s not completely impossible. The mode is more about high-rolling rather than decision making. You make make the best decisions on what minions you are given with you hero you are given but there is always someone that is high-rolling and destroying.
BG’s is way more about the RNG rather than skill now.
I’ve heard this term before from my irl buddy that i play with side by side on the weekly in bgs as a group. of course we dont try to collude to win the lobby by our proximity, but we (normally just I) will say what tribe we intend to go so the other doesnt also try to go the same to avoid the issue of both of us not making top 4 due to both of us sniping important minions. That said, he uses the term tempo in relation to the game and to this day every time ive asked him what he means by that he doesnt answer. Unsure if he just doesnt want to or just doesnt know how to.
Like if you mean rhythm, then like every other turn, such as "even, odd, even, odd " where you upgrade on the even rounds as turn 2 is your first opportunity to for most heroes. But when I propose that as what he means he says no.
SO what, in the most precise and repeatable way, do you mean by tempo?
So, um, free advice, one does not pick a tribe until one has the important minions becuase the important minions dictate your tribe.
So tempo is how one manages the pace of tiers while building a board that can withstand the opponents. It’s how one does both those things at the same time and how one knows which (rank up or board up) is most critical each turn.
There isn’t a hard and fast rule about when or what, rather it’s a “feel” thing that is related to the strength of my board and scouting my opponents before making turn decisions. The obvious one that everyone can see is when one plays the ghost, one knows that one can maybe take a risk that one wouldn’t take while playing a player with a better board.
There are lots of small plays that add up to larger plays over time.
For example, the bacon relaxor will lose the first couple turns (sometimes it’s a draw…but it’s not important on the first two turns), but gives 2/2 when you sell it, can give DS to tough tusk, or buff any direction you go - meaning it makes your board stronger knowing you’re selling it on turn three to buy two minions.
Taking lich doctor is almost always a good choice early because it’s a whole board buff no matter what you end up doing.
IF you don’t already have several DR or reborn minions, taking a corpse refiner is bait but it’s a huge boost if you do already have the minions because you can double tier almost like having Kragg’s hero power on top of what you have… but if you don’t have the units, it’s a lost cause to try to find them AFTER you have the refiner because you lose too much tempo searching.
Tempo is about using the curve that fits your hero power and maximizing both your tier level and your board, knowing, for example, it you’re losing you might want to stay on tier 4 an extra turn to stabilize or knowing you’re strong enough to double tier to go for first place in the same point in the game.
The only way this is remotely close to true (maybe not even this supports your theory) is if you’re going for some specific comp such as Beasts with Frogs. Also, you need a lot of other players in the lobby going for the same specific comp. But I think you’d still be okay and would be relying on combat rng at that point.
Some advice outside “get gud”: I’d try some menagerie, which is actually doing fairly well in my games. Maybe there are some synergies you aren’t seeing within the first 5 turns that can help you maintain health/stability and get you a solid start to your game. If you’re just Refreshing for something specific, yes, you will be in a bad position by turn 5.
Most games you don’t even know what you are going to be playing till tavern tier four or higher. It’s extremely rare to have an early build go the entire distance of a lobby.
That is silly, The moment I am presented the Hyena and token cats, then tier up and eventually have the frog, its all beast build from there on. Might make it to tier 4 before game ends, might not. but if you arent trying to maximize the beast build with frogs and parrot with some DR rats and the guy that avenges(1) +1/+1 on beasts and the oh so rare baron as the final piece. Its getting a triple of any of these and the baron that is the rare part of the build. but from essentially turn 1 or 2 this is decided.
I cant imagine starting round 1 and just holding onto the hyena in hand not playing it, round two tier up, then round 3 get lucky and get frog, and again hold onto in hand, and never play a minion at all on the board. Thats not what I call good advice.
I mean you can start like that but if you are on Tier 4 still looking for most of that build you are going to drop out fast. If you get to 5 or even a triple on 3 and don’t see the Baron you have to bail on the build anyway. You only get one turn to find it in this meta so you better get REALLY lucky.
Same thing for me. I will use the best synergy I can, but unless I pick up something strong like a Nomi, just because my board has more elementals than anything else, doesn’t necessarily mean I’ll be playing elementals.
I think a big mistake lots of complainers make is they HARD invest in their early game and forget even their biggest minion might need to go to make room for the better strategy.
That sounds like some seriously bad luck. So many ways to generate taunts in the game.
Happened to me two days ago. 1 Golden 1 Non Golden, couldn’t find a taunt in 3 rounds at 6. Sadly, things like this are not an uncommon occurrence. If you are doing that math, that is a failed chance to find a taunt in 210 mobs. Same day I died to a 0.4% chance and it was a loss with a 75% chance to win.
Beasts die early if you don’t find a baron because the combo melts without extra frogs.
This doesn’t work, though. Outside of godmode highroll luck, this is a losing strategy 90% of the games I have played.
Token start is fine, but it shouldn’t lock you into beasts when stronger units are offered.
No, that’s how you get a higher ranking, but NOT getting killed first, by making a workable board, then scaling into the endgame with core minions.
Why wouldn’t you play it?
But more important, why would you pick it? If you had token in the shop, that’s the play.
Clearly you don’t understand what I explained.
Exactly this. Trying to force a beast build will get you rolled right out of the lobby.
Exactly.
Most of my games are menagerie of whatever I can cobble together to scale until I hit a power unit and go go. I rarely take much damage in the first 9 turns, so even when I miss I am still usually top four just from latent health pools and strong midgame.
yee, I guess I might have chosen the wrong factions to do that with as well but when they start throwing forts at you you have hope, but it turned out to be a trap.
