I am playing Arch-Villain Rafaam
Power: “Next combat, add a plain text copy of the first minion YOU kill to your hand.”
(note: not the first minion that dies, nor the first enemy minion that dies, but the first minion that I, the controlling player, kill, so it should have to die to MY MINION or my damage source)
I faced off against Tamsin Roame:
Power:
Star of Combat
Destroy your lowest Health minion. Give its stats to five friendly minions.
Bugged interaction:
Tamsin’s friendly murder triggers my killing of an enemy minion and I get her low health killed minion.
If this is not a bug, if this is as intended, fix the wording on Rafaam’s power to be “the first enemy minion killed.”
it does say that, i agree, this looks like a bug
that or the hero power just needs a wording change
If a minion suicides into your minion without doing any damage to your minion, does that not count as a you killed it? just because Chiaotzu self destructed against Nappa doesnt mean he didn die because of the Saiyan Nappa.
but thats not what happens
The Minion uses self destruct, that’s a minion down to your benefit. First one down in your favor. Id call that a win if it were 1v1 minions and they did the same. I get what you are getting hung up on with the verbiage of the hero power but its like you are actively ignoring the successful loss of their minion to your gain. Just because you didn’t deal the lethal damage yourself doesn’t mean it isn’t the first victory in your favor that battle round. Look at it this way, they are choosing which minion they are going to give you should you choose to use your power, how is that any different than them choosing to put their weakest minion out front with taunt and it be the only taunter? They are still able to manipulate which minion you will get should you use that power. You don’t even have to attack, you can merely be attacked, and it dies, that’s your free minion from the power. You didn’t attack it to kill it, they attacked you to sacrifice it. Them doing a self destruct that doesn’t require you doing any damage yourself is not any different. They can still always manipulate which minion will be the freebie for you. That hero just has a power that makes it even simpler than how battle might resolve that.
Like with most heroes, you might have to change your normal plans based on what the next opponent is capable of. So if you are aware that they can pick a weak minion to sacrifice for you to get nothing of value out of your hero power, then I wouldn’t go with the gamble of using the power against that particular hero. There are many heroes who should and shouldn’t use their abilities based on who they are facing next. You might have found a pair that pair like oil and water and can be manipulated more so than most so just don’t do the gamble without knowing you wont get much out of it unless you know you need whatever it is they got that will be the sacrifice
If an enemy minion suicides (which is not the case here), or is killed by their own commander (which is the case here), either way that is not me nor my army killing them. Period.
It also doesn’t matter. What matters is this is not working correctly as written, and may or may not be working correctly as intended, and so either a way it works fix OR a wording fix is warranted. Your comments do nothing to help here.
What would you have the interactions do if it were round one and instead of buying a minion you used your power and just refreshed twice, while they got a minion and used their power. normally it would result in a loss with you having wasted your turn but since they used their power as well, it ends in a draw since neither of you have a minion at the end of battle.
But wait, you got the prize from them self destructing. Would you have that interaction changed? I wouldn’t. It is an unlikely scenario, ill admit that much, but BGs is full of those as well. I think you are just not planning your hero power usage appropriately based on the heroes you are going up against. Not every hero power is used every turn on every hero against every hero, outside of the passive ones.
I get what you are hung up on but I dont get why you are willfully being so, resistant, to the obvious. The explanation has been put out there, your acceptance of it is irrelevant to it being true.
Words matter, words have meaning. Simple. This interaction is likely working as intended, and a very easy word change would make it more obvious, more clear, and less annoying that this is how it interacts. It is annoying to have things work not as written.
If, however, it is not actually working as intended, and the real intent is based on the way it is written, then in that case they should bug fix it.
I do not believe ANYONE gets to claim the designer’s intent other than the designer, who is Blizzard. Beyond that, if you wish to assume their intent when you cannot know for certain what it is, you have no more of a valid claim that the current interaction is the intended one when comparing that against the interaction that would unfold if it worked as written.
I really don’t get why you are pushing so hard against this being looked at by game devs.
Im not pushing anything. Explaining, sure. Giving other examples of the same interaction giving the same results, you bet. Trying to get you to see that the words you are hung up on arent what is happening in any interaction between these two hero powers. I’ve stated multiple times that i got what you were hung up on, then I moved on. That seems to be your circuit breaking point. The words you read in the way you are reading them, interpreting the way you are interpreting, are not in any way the way I read them or how when I witness the two hero powers interact what my understanding of what the words mean to each other.
I got the point you are making, I just dont think you are interpreting them correctly given the context. Perhaps a word change on one or both or a blue post with a clear explanation will appease you. Maybe it wont. I just dont get all the vitriol and hostility and accusations you are throwing at me over my clear understanding of what I get out of their interactions, and your unclear non understanding of it.
All ive done is try to shed a little light on the concepts and relationships of the hero powers and how they interact in every way they collide. Its a fairly clear and obvious way it works and has worked. Under no circumstance would I see a video game level of Nappa fighting Chiaotzu and Chiaotzu just going self destruct right away, and not see that as a victory for Nappa, a kill for Nappa, and if the powers that be, a Chiaotzu of his very own to keep in his pokeball.
Yes, but it’s not a self destruction. It’s Tamsin killing off the minion. She decides when to use it, not the minion itself. Rafaam’s hero power indicates it’s because of something he did, but in reality, it’s just the first minion dying, no matter what the cause. So, the text is wrong and should be fixed.
if the first minion you killed was your own minion, would it be right to give you a plain copy of it?
In theory, but Rafaam can’t kill his own minions.
Sure it can, all it needs to do is send a weak minion against anything that could survive the hit and can ensure the death of said minion. That wouldnt be the enemy killing your minion, it would be you suiciding it since it is the attacking minion. Well I’d say that would be too ripe for abuse to spam easy triples.
Silly hypothetical aside:
That’s why it isn’t the first minion your minions engage in combat with, but the first enemy minion to be killed when engaged in combat with you. If they swing first or you swing first it wouldnt matter, whichever the first enemy minion to die against you during that combat phase, is the minion you will get a plain copy of. That’s why a suicided minion that doesnt need to ever touch any of your minions is the one you get a plain copy of. That suicided minion counts as a kill for you. In your stats for BGs where you can see how many triples youve had and so on, if there’s a category for how many minions you’ve killed, they would be counted under that number. You may not agree and continue to be hung up on the verbiage being used, but its the basic understanding of how a combat phase works, if they lose a minion in a combat phase, that is a kill for you. It doesnt matter how it happens.
Just remember this when playing that hero and you are going up against that hero on your next turn. You want to use his power every turn regardless of who you face, not caring what minion you get because it isnt relevant, its a way to use a gold to get to use that gold the next round again. instead of just losing it to that one turn via a refresh like all other heroes. it’s a minion you can sell the moment you have a free slot open and can make use of the extra gold (sometimes more than 1 if its the rank 1 elemental or naga). So no matter who you face off against, it doesnt matter what minion you get from the power, it is however beneficial if the one you can score can improve your board and synergizes with it.