I’ve been thinking about the balance lately with the buddies, comps, etc and every time it seems that poison and divine shield come up as balance issues and i think I have determined why.
First, poison is essentially an infinite attack buff. That’s why you usually reserve tarecgosas with 1000+ attack as having “soft poison” because it will kill essentially anything. Poison is a balancing act against huge stats, but the problem is when poison is COMBINED with huge stats. A bunch of 1 health poison minions can be cleared by a ghoul, or 3 health by jugglers, but you CAN’T defeat huge amalgadons with 100/100 poison divine shield.
Which leads me to my next point of divine shield being thought of as an extra copy of a minion. This is true but can be thought of something more useful relating to the conversation. Divine shield is essentially an infinite health buff, but it only lasts FOR ONE ATTACK. I mean think about it, if a minion has permanent divine shield it essentially has infinite health. Divine shield can be far more balanced than poisonous because even when paired with big stats they can be popped off.
So why don’t we make an infinite attack buff that only lasts for one attack? We can call it venom, and once a minion uses up it’s venom, it no longer has the keyword. If it’s too weak we can apply it to two attacks. I think this would be best for the health of the game
TL:DR
Poison is problematic because it’s a permanent infinite attack buff and can be paired with large stats. If replaced with a temporarry infinite attack buff it would promote a counter to large stats without being broken.
Only other suggestion I’ve seen thats interesting is changing minions to have “poison while attacking”
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If you remove poison, how are you going to kill a 30 / 2965876565 Tarecgosa?
If your answer is “with a 2965876566 / 30 Tarecgosa” then you’ve identified the real problem and it isn’t poison.
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Good think I literally just wrote an entire post dealing with that exact issue that’s above you. Tarecgosas is a seperate but equal isssue.
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So you agree the problem is Tarecgosa then, right?
I agree tarecgosa is a problem yes. It’s not the only problem that exists.
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If an enemy has an infinite health Tarecgosa, and you are playing a hero that can’t infinitely scale attack, you’ll lose if you remove poison.
The real problem is Tarecgosa, not poison.
If you have venom, you’d still be able to kill the tarecgosa, you just won’t be able to faceroll with 100/100 divine shield, poison, token amalgadons any more. Poison was an issue long before tarecgosa was implemented, and tarecgosa became an issue because it can essentially get poison.
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Then all you are doing is trading one problem for another. Everyone right now is doing the same thing: fighting to get Tarecgosa, and fighting to get poison to counter Tarecgosa.
You can look at HSReplay stats to see the truth of this.
Most warbands can create 200/200 minions or deal with 200/200 minions without using poison.
The problem, the heart of the problem, is Tarecgosa getting entirely too big and scaling too hard. Again, HSReplay stats show this. It’s 100% the main problem. Thus, you need poison. If you just eliminate poison and replace it with an infinite attack minion, you’re not solving any problem, you’re just creating a new one and you’re not dealing with the root of the problem.
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You have to plan for poison. It is part of the game mode.
The problem isn’t poison.
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What’s wrong with removing both for the time being?
Because poison isn’t the problem. The root of the problem is the insane amount of buffing that is mainly being abused through Tarecgosa.
According to HSReplay, if you go into each hero’s main build, you’ll see Dragons for most Heroes and you’ll see the #1 dragon as tarecgosa. You don’t see poison anywhere as often as you see Tarecgosa.
A 200/200 poisonous amalgam can be dealt with by a 200/200 pirate or a 200/200 murloc or a bomb build or a 200/200 diving shield mech.
A 1million attack Tarecgosa with 1 million health can ONLY be dealt with by poison or another 1 million attack Tarecgosa.
Look at all that data, and the problem is crystal clear - tarecgosa being buffed and abused in too many ways.
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Correct it is divine shield.
I agree and hate the poison/divine shield crap that dominates. I still can’t believe they lowered George’s ability to add divine shield to only 2 cost… for permanent divine shield??? There are a few minion that can reach super high attack, but if it’s a matter of a broken minion that can get too high… remove it from the game. True, murlocs would pretty much suck, but you could always add something else to help them aside from poison.
All of this boils down to playing your build instead of playing your lobby.
The complaints boil down to you want to play solitaire elementals instead of attacking your opponents.
I have always been a strong opponent of Poison in BG exactly because of what you describe (a +infinity ATK buff is ridiculous and undefendable). Doesn’t matter ludicrously high health is also a problem in BG, that’s like saying a rat infestation is great because they chased away all the mice.
But yes, as a 1-time effect each battle, I would definitely think completely different about it: it wouldn’t be +infinity ATK anymore that way in the same way I don’t consider Divine Shield +infinity health.
Poison is definitely a problem. Matches without Tarecgosa but with murlocs still devolve into a race to get murlocs and nothing else. It’s gotten to the point that I hate any match that murlocs are even in the pool. Saying poison isn’t a problem because Tarecgosa exists is a false dichotomy; they can, and are, both a problem.
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that’s actually a good way to balance poison
all the people crying about taregosa have a small point, but having a one off insta kill buff handles that without them being an instant win. Poison Divine Shield murloc is basically an instant win, making it unfun to play against… but gettting a super taregosa requires -alot- of things to fall into place. Where murlocs are a nightmare with just a single minion spitting poison on a board of murlocs, with an insane win rate
The only minion that should be able to have poison is the 1/1 spore w/o tribe.
You trade a one shot for a minion that is exclusively hard to buff.
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Murlocs can easily get 100/100 minions, easier then half the builds.
So why give them poison anyway?