So battlegrounds has both an elo raking and an mmr ranking. The elo ranking is used for the highscore list and the rating that you can see ingame.
The mmr is a number behind the scenes we do not know of.
In the traditional sense ELO is a measurement of your performance,it is a way to describe the chance you have to win against another player with another ELO.
In essense it is a measurement for how strong your performance has been up to that point.
In BG your elo is calculated according to traditional method and then there is a modifier applied,which depends on your MMR.
What the mmr is is not exactly clear in this situation. It can be described as “the elo rank the game thinks you should have”. Or to phrase it different
MMR is how strong the game thinks you are.
You can perform very badly but if the game somehow thinks you are good you will manage to keep a relatively high elo for a long time.
Because the game constantly adjusts for how strong the game thinks you are it gives you extra elo points for winning when you are below the mmr level and substracts less elo points for losing,because the game wants you to get to the level the game thinks you belong.
Imo this is a horrible system which has led to complaints (and rightfully so) but this thread is not about those complaints.
This thread is about a simple question.
How does the game determine your mmr,how does the game determine how strong it thinks you are.
Is this the amount of money spend on the game,the more money spend the stronger the game thinks you are.
Is it the amount of times you reached legend in hearthstone,the more times legend the stronger the game thinks you are in BG
Or is it the first 10-20 games you ever play in BG,if you play bad those games the game will think you are bad forever , well not neccesarily forever but it will take you a disproportionate amount of time to level up compared to someone who did well in the first 10-20 games. Either by sheer luck or skill.
And if its the last option then the following question:How can the game with only 10-20 games played give you an mmr that will hound you for a long time and how is that anywhere more accurate of your skill then simply your elo performance over those same 10-20 games.
So basicly very simple question:how does the game determine your mmr?
It would be nice if blizzard can give us some insight in this so that people can understand where it all comes from and maybe can lay down the complaints.
We aren’t whining about the MMR and elo for us right now. We’re whining about what the new player experience is going to be when it rolls out and how it’s going to be horrible for literally ANYONE who doesn’t go on a win streak right away.
We’re not complaining about NOW…we’re complaining about what’s GOING to happen BASED ON NOW.
why does it even matter if you can’t go high the first month ? you honestly think anybody’s gonna give a dam about your battleground MMR ? it has nothing to do with hearthstone lol.
This rating thing is a make or break for me,unfortnatly as I absolutely love the game. But there is many auto battlers to choose from. Was going to pre-order way earlier then I normally do just to be able to play this game.
But I am not gonna suffer for ages in elo hell because the game thinks I am an idiot who takes ages to learn something. Screw that lol.
Like halve the players or more is completely new to this game,they all have to learn but the game assumes you wont learn,or at best learn very slowly. This is a deal breaker for any halve competitive player.
All the streamers got high elo,some of them are horrible and don’t deserve 6k+ at all. But its easier to promote game when you also have high elo I guess.
Elo used to mean something,it was a system that rewarded everyone according to their performance.
And if you win 10 times against someone way higher then that is not a fluke that has to be corrected,no you are actually learning the game at a very fast pace.
But the game punishes you for that. The MMR is not needed at all,there is no good reason for it other then to “protect” players who don’t deserve to be protected and to punish players who don’t deserve to be punished.
Its a horrible system that drives away many players by more or less hardlocking them into a certain bracket from the start. So dumb I can not even.
“why does it even matter if you can’t go high the first month ? you honestly think anybody’s gonna give a dam about your battleground MMR ? it has nothing to do with hearthstone lol.”
Yes no one else will care, But this maybe is new to you,some players want to perform well without having to show of or have other people care. They want to do well for themselves and in this game ELO is a measurement for how well you do. The players want to see their progress (and even their downfall) in a fair way and not in a way that punishes you based on the first 10-20 games you ever play,like wth?
And blizzard still refused to come out saying how this mmr is actually being calculated,the very first mmr. Since lots of people complain about it,if it actually was harmless and something trivial they would have come out with it. But they haven’t.
Because I play the game for myself,i want to see if I improve and how fast I improve and how far I can go. Not to show off on the top 100 list,just for myself.
For that I need measurement how good I perform,a fair measurement that rewards me accordingly if I manage to improve fast and that also punishes me when I do badly. Elo auto corrects itself,there is no need for a 2nd hidden mmr to more or less lock you into a certain elo bracket for way longer then normal elo would do.
Sry for the insult at the start of my post btw lol,i will remove that.
Sure, I’ll agree with you. Battleground personally doesn’t interest me at all but I can see how irritating it would be if you just can’t climb anymore or at least at a much slower rate than those who’ve managed to win the first couple games.
Ya I’m going to disagree with you entirely here. Battlegrounds is a wonderfully fun mode and actually makes PvP Hearthstone fun again. I like that I don’t have to pay a couple grand for card packs to be able to compete on even footing in the game for 30-45 minutes. If you haven’t spent 4 years building up your collection the game just isn’t fun otherwise.
It’s also laughable that people are complaining about RNG in Battlegrounds when the core game is heavily RNG based and high level play always boils down to just a small subset of solid (or cheesy/soon to be nerfed) decks. There are dozens of winning strategies in Battlegrounds right now and over half the heroes are capable of winning. As with any beta a few things need tweaks but for a free to play mode that anyone can enjoy there’s nothing “trash” about that.
Maybe this is where we differ,i don’t care for getting first place every game. All I care about is pushing myself to the max against the strongest possible opponents.
What good is elo in the first place when it is adjusted so much that it doesn’t give a clear indication of your current skill level anymore?
But yes eventually you will catch up,after a very long time. I find the system demoralizing,from what I have seen on screem every streamer and their mods think the current system is bad.
Yet you seem to be ok with it,which is fine. Everyone has their own desires.
I will just go play tomorrow and suck it up,and also check out all the other autobattlers (though I think blizzard did nail it here as well,creating a better product then the competition. At least at first sight BG looks better to me then autochess or TFT though I haven’t given TFT a good look yet).
Anyway its closed for me now,it is what it is. Its bad and not attractive for new players with a competitive mindset,hence why people like amaz keep making smurfs over and over. The system is already being gamed lol. But it shouldn’t be like this,i shouldn’t have to make 10 accounts to get a good start with 1 of them so I can shoot for the stars and maybe end up on the moon.
Anyway,thats it.
Btw I am kinda happy that they put this into hearthstone,even though I do not fully understand why.
This genre is more then good enough to carry itself and become very popular,it feels like as a stand alone game it could have even more potential but having it linked to hs pulls in a lot of people so that’s a plus at least.
@below:no this is very different. I held the same opinion as you did until I found out how it actually works. How it works is not good and not needed at all,every competitive player agrees with that. This game is competitive in nature,more so then hearthstone itself I think which is mostly playing some cards and having fun (at least for me). An apropiate ranking system would be the way to go.
It’s not about getting first. It’s getting the elo one deserve. My last 30 games have 25 top 4 finish, and 9 first place. Guess my elo? 4.3k. Why? Because I conceded about 4 games when it first launch trying to figure out how this game works.
There’s no such thing as climbing “fast” if you start off in elo 4000ish (which is where nearly all new players and new players + little experience people will be).
Getting +25ish each game for a win means you’ll have to win about 80 games in a row just to reach the elo that people would be at if they got 20 games win in a row at the start.
Thus, it’s about 4x harder to climb than it is to stay at a higher elo.
Rewarding people via an elo boost at the beginning for knowing the tricks while hurting those who are starting off is really bad. The rating should be based on who you beat and shouldn’t be throttled to purposefully slow you down.
Imagine if I was a 4500ish rating player and I beat a 6000ish rating player and I only got 50 points for a win and that same 6000ish rating player beats a 5000ish player and gets 150+ points. Do you think that’s a fair system?
I’ve gotten first several times in a row and still only get about 57 at the absolute most.
When this first started I was under the impression via a streamer that murloc tribe was far superior so I kept trying to get that. I got pushed down to like 3600 rating before I gave up on that. Then I started going beasts and shot up to 4600. Now I constantly get top 4 but I only gain 10-57 points each match because it thinks my rating should be around there.
When the reset happens, I’m sure I’ll shoot up to 5000 instantly.
I got tricked into the Murlocs too. Too inconsistent for me.
Once I saw Mumma Bear in action I was like ah ok this is how you meant to finish a game. Same with Junk Bot, once i saw the power I knew what to build around
I only have 8 wins but like 48 top 4s
It’s real hard getting those finishers when everyone’s looking for like 2-3 specific minions
There’s a little trick I found so you can get those top tiers faster.
Before you purchase your third minion match, upgrade your tier status first if you can. You’ll get a free minion tier above that. The discover feature of it is the best part, so you can almost certainly get what you want most of the time.
I ended up with a golden mama bear, 2 golden hyenas, a golden +4/+4 deathrattle minion in my end game by doing this.
Some people get excited and just get the triple. It’s almost always better to wait until right after you tier up to play it.