I’ve seen some interesting ideas for buffs and nerfs so I wanted to create a thread where we can all throw our ideas in the hat.
Here are a few of my own:
NERFS
Humongous (what?!) Owl. Increase the cost to 9 mana. It won’t destroy it completely, but Warlock will have to work harder for it. Consequently players will have to get creative by teching weapon removal to counter Mithril Rod.
Irondeep Trogg. Increase the cost to 3 mana, adjust its HP accordingly. The card is far too effective at locking down boards for 1 mana and is devastating when played early.
Mo’arg Artificer. Reduce the minion damage from 200% to 150%.
Warlock Quest. Reset the quest completion steps back to original state and change the completion reward to 50% self damage (rounded up).
Celestial Allignment (Druid). Increase to 9 mana.
Dreadlich Tamsin (Warlock). Increase to 7 mana.
BUFFS
Rokara the Valorous (Warrior). Reduce the cost to 6 mana.
Brukan of the Elements (Shaman). Either reduce the cost by 7 mana OR add draw a card on top of the played effect.
Xyrella the Devout (Priest). Reduce to 7 mana.
Magister Dawngrasp (Mage). Change the hero power to a 2 damage ping which is effected by spell damage.
Build a Snowman (Mage). Add ‘Freeze a minion(s)’ battlecry which escalates for each upgraded snowman.
I’ll tell you now that there’s no clean way of doing this type of change. It would be a clunky mess. This change in particular will never happen
Same thing here. The wording is way too clunky. Even something like “your opponent takes half the damage you take on your turn instead of you” is still on the clunkier, harder to understand side.
This card I don’t get why people want nerfed. The big complaint from the previous meta is “we’re dying from hand too much and the board doesn’t matter”. This is a card that addresses this problem by forcing board interactions and punishes trying to just play from hand rather than on the board. This card forces people to care about the board by creating a potentially unanswerable board if you just try to play from hand and that’s great.
I’ll wait a few more days to elaborate a list of my own, but it will definitely include warlock and paladin. I wouldn’t nerf the owl and I wouldn’t buff any cards for now. And I’m not particularly fond of “halving effects” like Cariel’s weapon.
Irondeep Trogg - I’d nerf to “summon another Irondeep Trogg” instead of a copy of it.
Mo’arg Artificer - bumping to 3-mana should be fine.
Warlock Quest - make it only reflect card effects and the hero power. The other issue is Warlock’s healing, maybe nerf Touch of the Nathrezin to heal 3 and Tamsin to 4-mana.
Celestial Alignment - this I’d nerf it indirectly by making Noursh give empty mana crystals, and revert its cost to 5-mana. Maybe nerf Anacondra as well by making spells not cost less than 1 (and maybe lower its manacost as a compensation?).
I maybe agree here, but then I would like a change regardless. Perhaps an increase to 3 mana instead.
Irondeep Trogg
I agree with this and I’m all for counter spell effects, but at 1 mana the effect is too strong. So either increase the mana cost OR as another poster mentioned it could summon another minion with its base stats and it would still be strong.
Quest Warlock
'You’re Opponent receives half of any damage you take on your turn (rounded up)."
I personally wouldn’t see why that would be too clunky to understand.
OTK decks prior to this set were too strong. You need a very strong answer to force people away from that. After 4 months of die from hand OTK boredom I’m very happy to have a card that punishes that kind of deck hard.
Considering some people are calling for a complete ban on the card I don’t think it’s unreasonable to consider further changes. It is not healthy for the game in its current state. Reducing the quest completion steps and combining with Neeru Fireblade could still create a viable Quest deck.
people want the trog nerfed cause it a 1 mana drop that extremly distruptive (esp on turn 1) , killing with spells wont work and unless you can answere it right away with a charge/rush/ other minion that can deal with it it just snowballs especially since the copies keep applied buffs
That means you have to play for the board to beat it which is exactly what people said they wanted for months now. We just had 4 months of OTK death from hand decks and people hated it. Now they give us a card to punish those kinds of decks hard and force board interactions and people are asking for nerfs. Did people think everyone would just stop playing OTK decks that work for no reason at all? There needed to be something that punishes this type of deck, a card like Irondeep Trogg
Well I’ll look out for your post because I think all your suggestions are definitely an improvement on my own. Although I didn’t grasp the wording for the Warlock Quest change .
I agree that this card is insane at 1 mana. Face Hunter, Shadow Priest, and Paladin seem like they’re able to abuse it insanely well. We’ll need to see what the data says in the next few weeks.
It was absolutely true that the data from the first day of Alterac showed Owl Warlock as a Tier 1 deck. However, the winrate dropped significantly in Day 2, especially at higher ranks, as lots of players (some arguably bad pilots) swarmed to the archetype, and players increasingly and successfully metagamed against it. I wouldn’t recommend a nerf for Owl Warlock at this time based on the data we have, although I should also point out that we don’t have enough data yet so my opinion may change later (but probably won’t).
I don’t like the prospect of nerfing a neutral minion that is actively used by many classes, some arguably overpowered but some decided not. Technically, this would nerf Rally Priest. I dislike people who want to nerf Tier 3 decks.
No. Just no.
Anacondra Druid isn’t even in the top ten of decks by winrate for any rank — not in Diamond, not in Legend. And you’re not talking about a small nerf, either. This would be archetype deletion, not because a deck is over-performing but because you are biased. Reading this proposed nerf unironically made me angry.
Not a single suggestion for nerfing Paladin (unless you count Trogg). Hmmm.
So basically if there was a dislike button I would have pressed it, and there wasn’t a single thing I actually agreed on. If I didn’t quote it that basically means I don’t care about it enough to either support or oppose it.
I mean categorically I take issue with this line of argument. There are so many neutral minions that should never have been released as they were. Examples being: Corridor Creeper, Baku, Genn, Leroy Jenkins, Undertaker, Kael’thas, etc.
The fact is that while I STRONGLY dislike week 1 (or even week 2) nerfs, cards like Irondeep Trogg are potentially dangerous given how much they disrupt from turn 1 onwards, as well as the consistency accorded to players by running a second copy of it, as well as how certain decks or even classes (PALADIN) can snowball with a card that resummons copies of itself. Irondeep Trogg on paper (and 3 days in practice) is looking like one of the better cards to be released in a long time.
Edit: Not sure I’ve seen it yet, but missed mentioning how DRUID can just absolutely abuse Trogg. If it survives or gets buffed, then Composting on it–g freaking g. It’s the kind of card that just is begging to be used and abused.
you really dont see the issue do you? there nothing wrong with having stuff vs spells the issue is that a trogg can be dropped turn 1 well before you can have something against it, and if up against face hunter priest and paladin you better have something to get rid of it right away before it start duplicating while buffed.
If you think a self duplicating card (that keeps buffs) at 1 mana duplicating of every spell that can also attack is not over the top and way to powerfull, there really something wrong with you.
You can play minions to contest it early. I played against a drekthar druid that got it down early with guff and still won because I focused on playing minions to contest it on board and push back against the druid’s pressure. You can play early game minions too. You’re choosing not to
I guess there’s a point there. I am not a fan of collateral damage, but I guess that doesn’t mean we can’t have any missile strikes. Maybe that’s not a good analogy.
It’s hilarious how life works sometimes. I normally start off expansions playing plenty of Arena for packs, and immediately after this I started a game of Arena and my opponent turn 1’d a Trogg against me. As you might know, Arena decks are usually very spell light, but I had the coin and kept two 2-cost minions so it was pretty punishing. It was a close game otherwise, very tight on tempo, and I won only because my opponent went face with a 10/8 when he should have killed my 1/2 Pharaoh Cat so it couldn’t kill the 1/1 Taunt his Wrapped Golem was going to make, exactly enabling Crocolisk from-hand lethal. It was a great game, but I digress — turn 1 plays that punish the Coin are problematic on a deeper level that metagame balance because they make going first even better.
I think Trogg would be fine either as a 1-cost 1/1 or as a 2-cost 2/2. The former would make it so that, unsupported by a buff, it’s solvable by hero power; additionally, it wouldn’t involve buffing any aspect of the card, which helps for clarity. So I’d just lower the toughness 1 and keep cost the same. I know that sounds counterintuitive with what I said about the Coin, but a conditional neutral Wolpertinger isn’t really OP.
Thanks, I do think these are the more problematic ones, but let’s see how the meta adapts. About quest warlock, it’s just remove fatigue reflection damage. Could even revert to 6/7/8 like you said.
The issue is, that you dont lock out DH, mage or Warlock, because they have cheap, early removal, so they can solve it. You are locking out any late game deck, which relies on ramp/cheap spells to survive. Doesnt have to be OTK.
Those decks use cheap spells to survive too. It forces a shift to using minions to survive early instead. The big complaint was that the board doesn’t matter. This makes the board matter because you need to stick a board to survive early on instead of just hoping to remove everything
.