Are 80 minute "Starship DK" ranked games fun/cool?

Multiplayer Discussion
21

The connection is that most If not all hearthstone not that Fun interactions are deep connected with poor deckbuilding.

Solve this and most matches Will be fun. In the case of Control It is rewarding card hoarding by allowing hero portraits to become walls of meat.

Here targeted disruption would make you lose card advantage so those decks have to play the game proactively.

Basically in today’s hearthstone we can explain almost everything bad with poor deck construction being rewarded.
Be It combo , Control and sometimes even aggro.

This is the big bad guy.

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22

I think the great irony is that the card that is supposed to cap these long games (wheel warlock) ends up being the same deck archetype its trying to counter.

What they need to do is something like a quest that ends in summoning bonelord frostwhisper for your opponent.

I think slow games were more fun back when reno was in town because there just wasnt enough removal to fill a deck with only 1 card.

They also need to stop printing cards like sanguine infestation that draws/heals/removes and add some sort of a drawback for just stacking removal / health gain in a deck. That drawback used to be fatigue… but not anymore. I suppose card draw wasnt also tied to enhancing survival (vampiric embrace I’m looking at you)…

Mabye also tone down being able to remove a board thats been developed over multiple turns for only 4/5 mana and do away with hyper efficient removal/removal combos all together.

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23

I have seen more blood dk than anything else over the last several days.

I have stopped playing after completing whatever quest I had for the day because of it.

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24

I must confess, your replies today have been full of insight

And yet still, somehow, there’s a gaping hole in your logic

You CANNOT avoid rewarding badly constructed decks because as soon as you manage to design a truly perfect and fair meta where decks are balanced all across, then what’s gonna happen is that someone is going to make a very bad deck with extreme focus on something which counters those balanced decks, and it’s just a race with no end in sight.

Fixing the problem creates a new one, every time, welcome to life design 101. I don’t know a lot about card design, but this is a universal property of every complex system, which this game absolutely is, from a strategic perspective at least.

Sure, balance the game. Sure, give us disruption. Give us everything and make it look fair.

But in the end, it will just change what used to be the game’s weakness into another.

EDIT: people have a bias towards status quo, in general in life. This is why. Because deep down, in their amygdalas and hippocampuses, where the oldest part of human brain resides and stores our most primitive and basic instincts, they know that changing things just makes your problem become less known.

Every country and language has multitude of aphorisms to remind us of that:

  • better the devil you know, than the devil you don’t
  • why fix if it aint broken
    .
    .
    ,

here you can just keep adding those as you remember them, and I assure you, you will stop breathing way before you found them all, that’s how basic this knowledge is. We are born knowing it, literally.

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25

You’re correct but starting from a point where existing disruption is on point with what is needed for the game.

The amount of poor construction being rewarded will fluctuate instead of always be on an all time high.

And i even believe that it is fun for people to met with those decks under the correct circunstances. The deal isn’t to delete those decks but to get then where they belong.

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26

True, if all was properly balanced from the start, deletions wouldn’t need to happen, simple nerfs would suffice

I agree for sure, I just probably have less experience tolerating their flaws as I’ve been taking long breaks from game multiple times

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27

imbue hunter deck had multiple ways to tutor king plush.
the 2 mana imbue minion and 3 mana warrior spell card, etc

who are you to decided what is bad deck building.
it all boils down to efficiency and there are ups and downs side to having multiple win cons in your deck.

and there are many deck with multiple win cons.
recently hostage mage deck with multiple win cons in wild made it to top 1 legend.

in wild fatigue demon hunter makes good use of card that swaps both players hands with their deck.

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28

“Hurdur who are you to decide what is bad deckbuinding hurdur”.

The first thing to noite is that if someone has nothing good to say then said person might as well say nothing. You still free to make a fool of yourself but it really isn’t necessary.

With that out of the way it is very clear what the term “poor deckbuilding” was referencing and it is clear you don’t even understand what you’re talking about because you’re talking only about win condition.

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29

to those who are complaining about slow control decks dominating the meta
you cried for nerf to imbue hunter. completely destroyed that deck and this is the meta you get for that^^

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30

it’s you who has no clue.
it’s not only about win con but anything in general.
having multiple separate synergy doesn’t work well because that’s against the nature of how things work. EFFICIENCY

is math too hard for you to comprehend?

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31

Are 80 minute “Starship DK” ranked games fun/cool?

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32

One season “this game is too fast and turn 5 otks” Next season “this game is too slow and control”

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33

I’m a fan of combo, and I usually say this when people complain about combo decks. But I realize I’m in the minority.
Btw, this doesn’t apply to the combo decks of the last few months: in my opinion, there were design problems. Naga Mage and Sonya Rogue were good combo decks. Plush Hunter was bad.

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No. Different groups of people. + Plush Hunter was an example of bad design.
Plush Hunter had to be killed, but there were a lot of decks in the past that had to be nerfed a bit, but not killed, while they were completely killed: Naga Mage, Overheal Priest, different versions of Sonya Rogue.

Upd. I am not sure if it is correct to use “have to” in this context, but I don’t know how to say “should” if I am talking about the past, forgive me. I mean that devs could weaken those decks without killing them, but nerfs were so great that decks were killed.

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35

They are not different groups of people. Altair is one of aggro player who liked to see imbue hunter gone is now complaining about control deck dominance.

These people cannot be satisfied unless their deck becomes the meta.

those decks you mention were top tier decks dominating the meta. imbue hunter was not.

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This is not fair of you

You saw one reply in which I agree that control DK’s survival needs to get a bit nerfed, and that’s all

All my other posts clearly emphasize that every archetype should have advantage in some meta and that it’s only fair to simply patiently wait for your meta

I complain quite rarely. I will say this is not my meta, and it isn’t, but I got no issues with control meta or combo metas. I didn’t have issues with Zarimi, nor do I have issues with current Paladin…

But Plush Hunter was a clear outline, and now it seems like DK could become, as well

Again, really not fair to say this, I’m literally one of the “white knights” of this game

37

OTK/Combo decks are just control decks that have a win condition that wins in a way you can’t defend against. They have to play control to make it to their combo turn after all.

Of course, they’re a weaker form of control because their hand gets clogged up with combo pieces.

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I actually like them, if I’m the DK and win at least, but I also want to rank (fast) so it’s a toss up.

39

Except people can go all in on eficiency only because they can have exactly 0 redundancy and still not be target in standard.

If you call things with 0 redundancy “well built” then you really not know what you’re talking about.

Standard is losing it’s hability to have things go wrong and that is what making the game not fun for many.

And since nothing go wrong on the decks anymore It has to get artificially there.

Decks built like that are punished on any game that has the minimal respect for it’s strategy.

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40

Nope.

The only archetype division I could find contains two classifications of decks - one according to the game length and one according to the win condition. Trying to categorize decks into archetypes without using both measures at the same time will always lead to nonsensical contradictions.

According to game length, we have 3 archetypes:

  • aggro
  • midrange
  • control

This classification is literally emergent and non-avoidable, as in each meta decks usually cluster around 3 different average game lengths - 5-6 turns for aggro, 7-8 for midrange, and 9+ for control.

Besides game length, you can also calculate the percentage of removal/defensive cards in a deck and you’ll also notice 3 different clusters, mirroring average game length perfectly, but this method isn’t recommended because it can be impossible to standardize card classifications (some cards play multiple functions, and therefore belong to multiple categories; the deck which contains more such cards than other decks will naturally have advantage and it will simply break the classification’s purpose)

By win con, we have 4 decks:

  • aggro again - yes, aggro aggro is a real thing, decks like Face Hunter, Pain Warlock, Attack DH…you know, those that only hit face; so is midrange aggro (Imbue Druid, Swarm Shaman, Pirate Rogue) and control aggro (Ashe/Fryakk Rogue, Sludgelock…)
  • Tempo - when the deck relies on a tempo swing to change the direction of the game, also 3 subtypes based on game length; aggro tempo - decks like the new Zoo Shaman, Wallow Warlock, midrange tempo - these are what most would consider to be classical tempo decks, such as Gaslight Rogue, Midrange Tempo Druid, Tempo Mage… usually they literally contain “tempo” in their names, and control tempo - most of the DK decks in the last 2 years, especially those with giants and excavations which had brutal tempo swings
  • Combo/OTK - like all, contains 3 subtypes: aggro combo/OTK - decks like Nature Shaman, Insanity Warlock, Imbue Plush Hunter; midrange combo/OTK - Spell dmg Druid, pre-nerf Sif Rainbow Mage, Handbuff Pally pre-first nerf, Naga Shopper DH, control combo/OTK - most of the others, such as the original Freeze Mage, Wheel Warlock, Casino Mage and some complex, rarely played tournament decks
  • Attrition/Value decks - also 3 subtypes - aggro value decks are quite rarely encountered in this game, quite often unbalanced and nerfed immediately, these decks can kill you very fast but also outvalue you if need be, but include the likes of Excavate Paladin, original Zarimi Priest, Naga DH, Naga Mage… midrange attrition - Big Shaman, Deathrattle DH, Deathrattle Warlock, Reno Druid… and finally, control attrition, what most of the people mean when they say control - control Warriors, control Shamans, control reno paladins and the likes

You may use any categorization of archetypes you want other than this, but you will always be at a disadvantage against me strategy-wise and tactics-wise, as I will precisely know the limits of my deck, its peaks and its weaknesses and play according to them

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