17 Likes
Zeddy is as salty a ever Lol
2 Likes
I just knew it was going to be a list of zero decks LOL
I think itâs ok to be salty about it. A good portion of the Hearthstone player base likes control and they canât play what they like. Itâs like the game you enjoy you canât play and the devs are really silent about it and if they do speak up, itâs very little as if they donât care.
Wouldnât any player be salty about their favorite game taking away the funnest part of the game?
Some of the comments are comedy gold:
finally a deck analysis where i have all the cards i need this is the first time in the history of the game, im happy
I'm somehow still missing cards
15 Likes
Like i saidâŚ
Since the approach has changed devs should literally list quest shaman and quest mage as control deck to put the debate up.
The issue here is that even control decks got win conditions that got online by turn 8.
Maybe they not feel like control but by hard definition they are.
The cost of control having a win condition is the death of control that doesnât has a win condition.
1 Like
What utter nonsense!
Control always had a wincondition, otherwise it would have had a 0%winrate throughout, wouldn´t it?
Just because carefully accumulating an advantage doesn´t look as flashy as spamming 30cards in 1turn doesn´t mean it´s not a wincondition.
18 Likes
Yes and no.
Yes control did win games before.
And no. They didnât have their actual win condition.
Deny your opponents win condition isnât an actual win condition unless youâre playing against someone that actually tries to win the game.
When 2 extreme greedy control decks play against each other they will probably end in turn 45 draw.
Remember archivist elysiana?
The card was even was banned in many tournaments during her time because:
-
The matches were a snoozefest.
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Matches did take so much time that there wasnât enough time to get the whole tournament done on the schedule.
5 Likes
I am amazed you can keep posting even more and more rubbish every day 
And even completely forgetting to post any actual data to support this pile of crap
Control allways had wincondition. Fact. Simple as that.
Tiny minority of control decks had fatigue as win condition in a recent expansions - for example DMH warrior or pre nerf Elysiana.
Even control mirror matches werent long for 45 turns (unless it was a rare fight of fatigue decks - chance like you got struck by lighting while shark would bite your leg).
Care to tell my I lie? Post me the sheer number of pure fatigue standard meta control decks with no other win condition than let fatigue kill your opponent.
6 Likes
Itâs not about players not wanting a win condition, itâs about wanting to play a deck that pass turn 6-7. This is why I liked control, not because there were very few and niche win conditions, I liked it because I could get to turn 10 unlike aggro that wanted to finish in turn 5.
I donât care if they call quest shaman/quest mage as control decks. I want to pass turn 10, not to play especially control.
Well yes, thatâs the problem. This is why people complain. If Quest Shaman/Mage/Warlock were finishing in turn 10-12 not 5-6, I would gladly be ok with them or even try them.
And my issue is that I could do it last monthâitâs a new expansion problem not âpowercreep by timeâ problem. Now I can do it only after I insta-concede 6 combo decks in a rowâand even after this Iâm against an aggro but at least this is acceptable.
3 Likes
Control decks used to run wincons, Rag, Ysera but aggro and midrange got too efficient so the only option was to cut them and run more removal and card generation and just grind them out.
Rattlegore was a more recent wincon card that saw play, control decks will run wincon cards when they are viable, we just havenât had anything good enough ( I bet Rag would still see play).
I donât think this is just about control however, itâs more about the current gameplay, short games , often with explosive finishers that leave you feeling powerless, getting 30-0âd T6 or 7 while you sit there watching your opponent draw and play their whole deck is just not a good experience imo.
Hs allows very limited interaction with your opponents hand, so the only option vs combo decks is to kill them first, this doesnât feel like satisfactory gameplay to me, itâs a race rather than two decks interacting.
9 Likes
DK Gulâdan is another control win con that saw play for a long time and it was really great(and fun imo).
Traditional control has the same win condition as midrange or aggro: win board so you can go face.
The three deck types differ in how they try to win board and when they try to win it.
Aggro goes for strong early tempo but very little value oriented plays. They trade card efficiency for tempo and burst NOW, so they can win early.
Control goes for more value plays, where they win board eventually by being more card efficient using removals and value trading. When the other guy has no cards to answer you, then youâll win the board even with a crummy 1 drop.
Midrange is in the middle, balancing both tempo and value.
Put it another way, aggro tries to win with little drops, while control tries to win with big drops. In classic for example that could mean dropping a rag or ysera after the enemy is worn down. As mentioned by someone else Rattlegore is a strong control minion. As the metas evolved control ended up getting things other than minions that let them out value people and/or go face. DK Gulâdan as mentioned above is one way to keep up value while being able to hit face.
Then thereâs fatigue. Fatigue shares some similarities with control like using stall and removals, but a fatigueâs win condition is, well, fatigue. They usually donât run late game threats for more defense, stall, milling ability, etc.
Putting this context into quests⌠most quest donât win by value, but by tempo and burst.
Now, quest rewards could be used towards generating more value (say, shaman quest using guidance, pallies trying to out trading people with endless upgraded dudes), but in practice itâs more practical to get that burst in and finish the game faster (shaman doomhammer and nuking; pally trying to land conviction+battlemaster)
Quest priest is probably the only quest where you canât go tempo.
That most quests are used for tempo/burst instead of value is one reason games vs them donât drag on too long.
4 Likes
For some reason Blizzard wanted control to be turn 30-50 wins.
And instead wanted the game to be win on turn 7 or 8.
Why canât control be win turns 10-20? Itâs not that much longer. It doesnât have to be win with fatigue. It doesnât have to be infinite generation. But they keep making it that way.
3 Likes
I dont want to sound a douche but u ask anyone about tactics and sht and they will tell you draining ur opponents resourses is a perfect win conâŚ
Its another thing some of u may not like it and deny its existence in games that can use this tactic doesnt make it nonexistentâŚ
If we happen to use ur logic about this backward plain old attacking ur opponent till their health is 0 WICH IS A RESOURCE ITSELF WUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT shame on me i know im using logic this time for real its not a win con.
By this sry not sry stupid logic anything that isnt outright combo win con is not a win con.
Its another thing that the devs want to have control decks combo like game finishers cuz some dudes cant decide if they want to go the bathroom to shiet or to play hs on their phoneâŚ
2 Likes
This is disingenuous. You know when players talk about control, and late game, they define late game as well beyond turn 8. This seems like a bizarre defense of mage, really. Players say mage and warlock killed control, and your rebuttal is mage is the new control (by my strange definition no one uses but me).
8 Likes
Control has been on the ropes for a long time. The past year has only made the situation worse for those of us who enjoy those types of decks. The devs seem to want things this way just judging by the cards theyâve been printing. I wonder how much of it is due to them just wanting to appeal to a huge Asian player base that might want faster games rather than drawn out control matches? Companies donât do anything without a good reason and that reason is more often than not tied to their bottom line. I occasionally dust off my controllish priest for the heck of it but playing him nowadays is about as fun as getting whacked in the face by a 2 year old with a rubber mallet.
8 Likes
ive seen people rage
when told questline mage is a control deck
I hope you donât mean me; Iâm not raging.
Please stop with the Quest Shaman Control deck bs. I play the deck. Itâs way more like a tempo deck mixed with aggro than anything else. The highest cost card is 4 mana.
Stop saying itâs a control deck. It plays NOTHING like a control deck. Stop with the nonsense.
This is a high paced tempo deck that looks to close out the game asap.
9 Likes
So where exactly is the âcomboâ in questline mage?
Getting your cards stronger in late game is a perfectly fine late game win condition for no combo decks be they spells or minions.
There are no predetermined sequence of pieces to be played except by quest reward being played first. So no there is no âcomboâ.
And not forget that the win condition only gets online after i remove minions with an variety of spells because questline mage literally have to generate their own minions to remove if my opponent not plays his.
Sorry but looks like a control deck with a burn finisher for anyone that stop focusing on what turn it actually happens.
Instead of deviating from the point I was making, letâs return to it. Youâre using a definition of control that no one else uses. This is because what is inherent to that definition is the amount of turns; when people mention control, they also mean lasting past turn 8.
As for what you want to call mage right now, I really donât care. It isnât what most people refer to as control. Thatâs all Iâm really saying.
3 Likes