I am sick of streamers dictating peoples’ opinions on things in games. We all know Wudijo drums on about how there should be no cheat death pot. This is despite the fact that he uses it almost all the time when he plays, and is the biggest hypocrite in gaming. This is the guy who complains about exploits, but then gets caught using TurboHUD (a literal game hack) on stream. You’re not hardcore if you aren’t as hardcore as Wudijo right? The bizarre thing is that half the people who complain about death pot are not even HC players, they’re just regurgitating what this one particular hypocrite streamer says.
Yes, death pot does kind of trivialize HC when you have the it + the scroll of escape combo available. It is a problem that this combo exists and is available at all times. But just completely removing cheat death mechanics, with absolutely no other way to EVER avoid one shot/stun lock/lag deaths, is just a really bad move. Removing it basically makes it impossible for HC players to engage with endgame content and many builds.
In a game with one shot mechanics that require lots of practice to avoid, a game with AoZ Blood Seekers, Uber Lilith, etc, you’re basically just telling me I don’t get to participate in the endgame without some super dumb cheese Selig build, etc.
In D3, hardcore players had cheat death abilities which even softcore players generally always used, and they still died all the time. When you proc’d, you had to continue to stay alive against the boss or whatever. It was still plenty hardcore.
This dev team cannot stop getting it wrong. I think I give up.
What is a real HC player? Been playing HC since I was 12 in D2 (23 years ago). Got world first HC AoZ T25, many world rank 1’s in D3 leaderboards, have done everything there is to do on HC in D2. I’m not a real HC player?
Absurd, I have thousands of hours logged in HC and have explored tons of endgame content. Makes no sense to mess with the current EoDE system. You never hear anyone complain about it in game.
Better approach would be keeping Death Evasion but reducing % exp while active or dealing less dmg or something.
Or even better:
When death evasion is active you cant use scroll of escape. If you dont have death evasion active you can use scroll of escape
Hitting Alt F4 or escape escape in D2 was the scroll of escape back then lol. Now they want me to play hc in a game with OS mechanics?
I cant pop out a lvl 100 in a day like Wudijo cause my day is 2 to 3 hours of gaming. In his race time that is 6 days playing for me and I gotta run back to dungeons etc so its more like 18 hours to get to 100 (7 to 9 days)
Streamers ruining gaming, this man needs a job or life.
Agree with Puz, if there are one-shot mechanics, or even disconnects where your character stands in combat for few seconds before the alleged scroll of escape triggers then there is a place for death evasion. Also agree that one HC streamer dosnt represents the community.
FYI - this is coming for a HC only player in D2, D2R, D3 and D4.
Exclusively hardcore player since early d2 here. I think crafting the death pot should have been made more challenging / rare but it shouldn’t have been removed outright. It also should not have been possible to stack it with other elixirs so you had a choice to make.
I’m not totally sad about this change but I would have preferred it to stay as a buffer for trying hard content to see if you’re ready for it (instead of having a potion on all the time). Or to have a few ready in a pinch when you really needed one. One shots are a thing, lag spikes are a thing, and with the new greater rifts both will be much more common and dangerous.
Also sucks that the sorcerer passive got killed? That one was well balanced as using it was a big trade-off in your damage. It also gave sorc a unique identity in the game. At least now we don’t have to make that choice I guess lol. I don’t even quite understand what the new sorcerer passive does… but the way I interpret it is it is absolutely useless and will regularly proc every couple of seconds / minutes when you don’t need it at all.
This is all an indirect buff to the legendary aspect bubble. A balanced problem with that one is it procs way too easily and is often wasted when you didn’t really want it to proc but that’s a good tradeoff. Perhaps it should be buffed a bit to proc at like 60% hp instead of current 80% where almost any small random hit triggers it for no reason.
Maybe the new flame shield should have been something similar - like proc at 40-50% hp so it’s better than the aspect but still not foolproof.
Agreed Puz… I also came to this forum to start this thread. Removing cheat death elixir is really not cool and just because of some streamer(s).
Even with cheat death elixir you can still die… maybe reduce the time to … let’s say 1 second or remove the seconds altogether. So that you are given a warning that you have cheated death once…
Something like that would be much much better. Let’s keep this on and provide feedback in PTR as well.
I say let’s make it “real” hardcore and ban Selig from the HC realm too. I’m seeing a lot of barb loving peeps posting nonsense supporting a move that is going to make HC end game content less skill based and more purely build based.
A softcore player complaining about hardcore, heh heh. Pretty funny. Dude, if you have not realized it by now, you’re not built to be a HC player, even if you think you are.
You’ve absolutely nailed it, with this posting. I also play sometimes together with some others and sometimes we can feel a little rubberbanding or like last time massive lag spikes. Everything went fine until today, I haven’t got even one procc on my main. But I also like to have that little buffer, when shiiiiiet hits the fan.
On the other hand: I have carried many many people through harder stuff, this season. People, who only have real limited time. For them, it’s a huge jeourney to become 100 again, even when they were boosted to 60. I thin, most will leave seaonal HC, when they die. And that would be sad. I think, HC will lose a bunch of people, with this change. And the world will become more empty.
I hate to quote Donni Trample: But it’s sad…Soooooo sad. HC laways has been the best play style ever…so sad
But I wouldn’t make Wudijo responsible for this, as the title said. That is way too easy. It’s Blizzards edcision and only theirs. Wudi has made a lot of good suggestions so far, that made the game better. And he also profitted a lot from the Death Evasion, when he killed Uber Lilith legit withoul an Esxploit-Oneshot Build then.
I agree with this post. I have watched Wudijo for a long time, and I have seen him make use of the “cheat death” mechanics in both D3 and D4 many times. He is the only person I’ve ever heard state that he wants this mechanic removed. For a streamer/content creator, I understand Wudijo creates content and events with additional challenges. This is his choice on how to spend his time and attempt to generate revenue.
For myself, I need a “cheat death” mechanic in both D3 and D4 for all the reasons that have already been previously mentioned. When my “cheat death” procs, it creates a brief pattern of gaming characterized as evasion to avoid my character’s ultimate demise. For people like me (120 year old dad, 53 children, 17 jobs), this mechanic is necessary for me to enjoy hardcore for days/weeks.
When I started my HC journey back in D3, I could not convince most of my SC friends to join me. The choice to go HC did come at a cost of splitting from my group. Even after I talked to them about new methods/choices/decisions involved in HC, they still would not budge. I did however make new HC friends and the HC community was a much richer community with more collaboration and assistance.
I believe that losing the cheat death mechanic in D4 HC is going to thin out the HC community further because we all used “cheat death” mechanics to keep playing our characters after events of accidents/lag spikes/one-shot mechanics.
I would strongly encourage Blizzard to reimagine and reintroduce this mechanic back to D4. “Cheat death” should always be a choice and benefit/cost trade-off from something else.
Lastly, I think the D4 Season 4 update was awesome and massive. I do really hope that this update breathes life back into Diablo 4 for many players who feel this game is lost. However, this one small choice to screw the HC community is something I cannot get passed. This was not the right move at all.
I’m a REAL HC player and I’m ALWAYS looking to cheat death. Here’s how and why:
With items, because I can’t survive without good gear.
Death Potion, It can take a while to get good
Scroll Of Escape, because you never know when lag is gonna hit or The Butcher will show up. Too bad you can only get these through drops.
Spend Hours Grinding - to get better at surviving and the only way to learn without spoilers (build guides). All the dying with this method is not a lot of fun.
I admit I don’t use build guides because what’s the point of playing the game if you already know what to get. That’s not fun for me.
Was there a poll taken? If so, I likely missed it. I’d vote that they put Death Potion back in the game.
Also, I will admit I die a lot because I forget to pop the Death pot and bind the SoE to a key for quick access. Just my bad habits. So I think I can live without it, but I would hate to try next season without it.
What’s the point of hard core if there’s no chance to die?
Don’t blame Wudijo for using every tool available while playing competitively. That doesn’t mean he’s not allowed to ask for those tools to be removed.
— Only Lilith and uber-Lilith have an one-shot mechanics. It only gives you an achievement and nothing else, just don’t go to her.
High-end content is easier on hardcore than softcore from release and that’s incredibly absurd. Here are a couple of examples: nm100, uber-Lilith, aoz. Hardcore-char after a potion proc can continue the game, while softcore guys either have to start over or get reduced counter of available deaths.
Here’s an example of my aoz-run that would have ended in nothing on softcore: https://youtu.be/6mqwgR1kcVs?t=576
If someone likes hardcore to be easier than softcore, I dont understand you
Just want to add my little voice to what i can only assume is the growing chorus of HC players who didn’t ask for and dont want the removal of death pots.
Only thing i can think of is that they dont want HC players routinely doing gr100s. With how fast HP can yo-yo, you want a death potion active to prevent a stray big hit or more likely a lag spike from taking you out. There are plenty of things they could’ve done to stop you from just scrolling away to safety and waiting for 5 min every time your potion activates if that’s really the problem.
I’m really more than a little worried that this is the sort of thing that’ll go live and then just get ignored, regardless of how players feel. Maybe months later they add it back in as a legendary aspect that puts hardcore players down an aspect, in much the same way your d3 death save put you down a passive slot (or an ammulet).
still though, nobody i’d ever seen was upset with the potion.