We need nerfs, not buffs

No, you are missing the point that this is basically what the Diablo franchise has been about, has always been about. Its about smashing as many mobs as possible, farming loot and bosses to get even more loot.

Feel free to look at gameplay videos from each version of Diablo from 1 through to Immortal. Its not about challenge at all, I have no idea where people like that thought that concept was part of the Diablo franchise because its really not, Diablo 3 introduced a warped challenge concept with high end rifts and much much later, Uber Bosses was introduced into Diablo 2 because of people complaining it was too easy.

The fact remains, The entire diablo series is about farming loot and min/maxing your stats and that is entirely the truth, if you cannot accept that fact, I’m sure another 10 people will correct you on that.

There you go. This is neither fast killing or easy. You contradict yourself.

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Level 24 char, try again.

So? D4 beta was lvl 25 max. We talking story playthrough here not endgame farming.

You realize that comparison is so stupid right? Besides we don’t know what endgame content is going to be here, but looking like we can make the assumptions its going to be similar to Diablo 3 with the information we already have.

Absolutely. I had nearly lost hope for this game when I started playing a necro over the weekend, thought it was a kind of ARPG/idle game hybrid. I was just ‘playing’ (watching more like) to see how far blizzard had fallen. Made up my mind to uninstall but my mate was like ‘just give barbarian a go you might like it’. I gave that idea no credence at all but didn’t have anything better to do so I made myself a Barbarian and it was just absolute night and day the difference. Suddenly what appeared to be the worst game of all time was actually a really engaging experience that I just couldn’t get enough of. Leveled the barb and a druid and had an absolute blast.

On the one hand, you have dark souls, on the other, candy crush. Don’t choose candy crush.

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Guessing you never played previous diablo games or pet builds on ARPGs because that is exactly what its like, you basically don’t do much at all. If you want a challenge, you gimp yourself with an off-meta build instead of trying to force souls like principles on other people who just want a regular diablo game that is worthy of the namesake instead and the jury is definitely out if it’ll live up to it predecessors whilst also forging its own path forward.

See the first post in this thread. Video there is first boss encounter in game. You’re constantly confusing endgame farming of well geared characters with first experience of game. Diablo 1-2-3 were very much about challenge and not fast killing in first playthrough.

Two minutes for a boss is too long?? I hope this is a joke.

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Any game’s community is like 75-80% casuals and 20-25% hardcore players. All company aim for that 75% casual players for profit, and make game depth for the hardcores. Blizzard is a profit oriental company, and also aim at the casuals with each of his games. So they won’t make a hardcore, Darksouls like game like ever.

Those companies who decide to focus more on hardcore players like PoE and Darksouls/Elder ring, just won’t be able to grow, from their limited size/playerbase. It doesn’t mean that any of these games are bad.

D1 and D2 at their time were basically the only options in the genre. This is why all those ppl who got to like this genre played it. Now that we have more options, finally everyone can choose what they prefer in ARPG-s. This also means, we don’t have to force our preferences on all the ARPG-s coming out, as we can just choose to play those we like.

So about D4 balance issues on lvling and how hard the games feels. Unlocking class quest on all classes will definitely help. Also drop rate will be like 1/3 of what was in beta, so getting game changing items will be a lot less through lvling. It will make all classes feel less powerfull. World Tier choice had little meaning, as there was basically no difference between the two in difficulty. I hope they’ll separate difficulty lvls more, so everyone can choose a lvl they like. Both casual and hardcore.
Individual balance:

Sorc: Over all a good balance. The class has a few skills that are more powerful then the others, making them almost mandatory in any builds. Those need to be toned down, to the other skill’s lvl, so it’s not mandatory anymore.

Barb: Giving it a better base hp and armor/lvl bonus will solve all it’s tanky problems. As basically any of it’s skills works on additional hp etc, the base value won’t casue problems in balance.

Rogue: Over all i felt, it had the most balanced lvling. It’s traps were a bit underwhelming on their own, if i have to say something.

Druid: As the class is designed around big cd, costy, heavy hitter skills, these skills need to feel more impactful. Also most of it’s skill’s AoE effect area is just too small. Lastly, the spirit generation base skill options are poor. Storm Strike is just far better then any of the other options.

Necro: Starting with 4 meat shields on lvl 1 for free is just too much. Minions should be a build up thing. Even starting with only 1 would feel good and strong enough, but probaly halfing it and having 2 would be a good enough change. The other thing is is the same as Sorc. There are some mandatory skills, that should be toned down to the power of the other skills.

Conclusion. I would both nerf and buff at the same time. Scaling everythign down to druid as of now would be too hardcore, and game would loose a lot of ppl plaiyng it. Buffing everthing up to necro as of now, would do the same, but the other way around.

This is going to seem like heresy in the modern gaming context, but sometimes copying exactly what everyone has done before you isn’t the best option. I’m not the biggest ARPG player, but I did put a lot of hours into Diablo, Diablo 2, played the Path of Exile beta, Diablo 3, maybe some others. What I want from games has changed over time though. The opportunity exists for this game to ‘forge its own path forward’, as you say. It doesn’t have to be exactly the same as its predecessors.

Edit: Also none of those games were anywhere near as easy as playing the D4 necro is. Out of the gate knowing nothing about the game I just 1 shot kill everything all the way up to level 25 and never felt threatened at any point. In all of those other games I died at various points early on. I died on my barbarian and druid.

Diablo 1 and 2 had the advantage of not having the same level of information spread, so it was much easier for them to be challenging. Nowadays you have to use hard mechanics to add challenge to the games. If Diablo had been as easy in it’s heyday as playing the necro in D4 is today, we wouldn’t be sitting here talking about sequels to a failed game from the 90’s, and the ARPG genre probably would never have taken off.

this ist not WoW. this ist Pa … i mean Diablo

It is also not a court of law where the benefit of the doubt should be granted to the defendant. They are here to try to win us over, based on what they have to show us. And in this beta, I don’t think they will. If this were just another arpg, without the Diablo IP stamped on it, would you make this purchase? I honestly do not think I will.

Irony here is that anyone who played the beta is going to feel far less powerful in retail than they did in the beta. Like what was mentioned from a previous post the legendary drops during beta were set to drop 3 times the amount compared to live retail. It’s very possible that some players will maybe see 1-2 legendaires leveling up from level 1 up to 35-40 with some maybe even seeing none at all.

I started playing PoE, when there was only 3 acts of it. At that time, i was like: It’s a good base for a game that could grow well, but i’m glad it’s free, because i would’t pay for it as of it’s states now. I put the game aside for awhile then returned to it once it had 10 acts. I tested it out and liked the changes, but still didn’t focus on it that much. After returning to it after the Map system was added it it, was the point i fall in love with it, and play it since.

I feel the same with the beta now. D4 has a good base, to grow into a really good game, but it needs more time, and as of now i won’t pay for it. However this will be a game i look foward to. I will continue to watch, what changes to come and Jump in asap once i see it grown well.

Yeah that’ll keep Barbarian and Druid well balanced, but the likes of Necro are OP without even having basic gear, let alone legendary gear.

why have higher difficulty if they are all going to feel trivial?

I rather struggle a little. It feels more rewarding that way, and I get less bored. I don’t want to fall asleep on my keyboard just pressing right click.

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The thing is, this game costs you a whopping $70, that’s why we all expect it to be in much mature stage.

Yes I agree with you

I am fine with all items dropping in T1. As for rewards, if you mean cosmetics, then sure, heck, you can hand them out as an achievement for opening the game for all I care.

But no, the droprate of course needs to be higher at higher difficulties. It would make for a silly game experience if Tier 1 was outright the most efficient way to gear.

Dont know, and dont care. “Showing off” is irrelevant tbh.

All games that are not visual novels (nothing wrong with that), should be about “git gud” tbh. Otherwise what is the point.
Learning a game, and improving at it, seems like the core idea of a game.

Seems like Elden Ring grew reasonably well.
The idea that “casual” players dont play Elden Ring and such is also very wrong.
Just like it is wrong to believe that “casual” players dont want difficult games.

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