Trading WITHOUT Bots and Shops is POSSIBLE

PC General Discussion
1

Third time now I will try to explain a market system which is only having 1 negative aspect.
People seem to be blind or ignorant because people where actually continuing discussing the bad about AH 's and Goldsellers etc. after I mentioned a working market place system.

-First, I don’t want anybody to say “D4 is not an MMO”, because fact is,
since we have cosmetics, emotes, legion events and world bosses, you have to admit that Diablo 4 is an RPG which wants to be a MMO.

-Second, I already quit playing and just waiting for some Season or evolving progress which fits to my expectations for the game to be in a decent state.

-Third, you may have an idea about the system if you played Bless Unleashed.
Bless Unleashed for example had real world bosses, real nightmare dungeons and imo a very good market system.

Here we go.
If you’re going to create a new currency or just use gold, it works both ways.
New currency could be farmed in small amounts by participating at worldbosses or legionsevents, some daily reward for logging in or similiar.
RMT is not available for this currency, in Bless it wasn’t either. It’s just an idea how it could be implemented in D4.

Each big town has a Marketplace in the shape of a statue, a vendor, or whatever you like.
You can go there, select a piece, select a price and start selling.
Elixirs, materials & gems (though they don’t have much useful sense yet),
or just sell your GEAR.
Rares, uniques, legendarys or just their aspects.

You can go there and just look up specific items, if something fits your desire, you decide if you like the price and just buy.
Or just look around what people are selling and get an idea about the prices like how they’re changing.
It’s an incredible long live feature which can keep player for a very long time.
It evolves just by player using the market place and it doesn’t impact any players experience not using the market place.

Trading, PvP and Grinding were the aspects that kept Diablo 2 alive for so many years.
And grinding is on the third spot for a reason.
But it was so full of Sellers/Shops and Bots, especially Spam Bots.
This is the reason why we don’t have a world chat imho.
Blizzard failed to prevent us getting bothered by sellers, though it’s very small impact but I hate each friend request from Accounts whose names include “Buy gold”.

Now here is the clue:
If you’re trying to sell stuff at the market place, you always have to pay a fee for adding items to the market place, mostly depending on the price.
If you add something to the market place, there is a hidden RANDOM time (30 -120 min for example) for your item to appear in the marketplace.
Items remain for 2-3 days at the market place.
This is excluding ANY possibility for Shops or Bots to address items to somebody.
Woooooow… so all the trading would remain in-game.
Nobody would even think of paying real money for an item if the seller cannot assure that you get the item.

Not sure if I’m missing something… ah yes, the 1 negative aspects.
You can’t address items to friends.
BUT, everyone receives the same chances to sell and buy stuff.
So I’d rather have this tiny restriction instead of completely giving up on trading itself.
Only having rares tradeable is the incompetence of blizzard for not using years of developing time to go a for decent trading system.

I now see that Gold can’t be a currency for this because we had already Gold exploits, players and streamers with billions of gold would destroy the economy of it.

I don’t expect that system to be in D4, it’s just a thought!
Feel free to add ideas or doubts in a friendly way.

3 Likes
2

Good idea.
I could spam this thread with my posts of the very same thing - no support.
We’re in Hip to Hate mode right now. Good ideas will get flushed because it’s not an I “quit/hate” topic.

Good luck!

2 Likes
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-First, I don’t want anybody to say “D4 is not an MMO”, because fact is,
since we have cosmetics, emotes, legion events and world bosses, you have to admit that Diablo 4 is an RPG which wants to be a MMO.

I stopped reading there.
You wish it to be an MMO, that’s something else.
Please go back to WoW or w/e you came from.

4

I am very against trading in PoE/D2 style and dont think D2 fits modern aRPG theme, but I agree on some of your points.

I don’t think community wants p2v trading, we wants p2p trading. Majority of player bases are satisfied with obtaining something not on their loot table or lending a helping hand to strangers or friends whether with payment or not. I was testing on an ultra lvl toon, a total stranger invited me and gifted me items which he thinks I am lacking. I totally didnt need these items but the gesture was so much appreciated.

I had 40k playing hours on D3, no I am not a bot. Manual hours over 11 years. Some point during these years, I played PoE. The trading system was fantastic on PoE, so fantastic I lost every desire to grind for loot and simply grinded the auction house and accumulated en mass wealth in very short time. In game auction housing has pros and cons, how its is implemented can takeover core gameplays. Similar behaviours from players, especially from RMT AH were common in D3 and one of reasons it was shut aside from financial regulation conflicts.

Where AH is heading depending on data Blizzard collects from industry. Trading gained huge popularity due to loot tables & fake RnG proposed from games. Why is there loot tables in today’s game? Get rid of loot tables and make every character equal chances of items. Our energy should be fighting mobs 24/7 not engaging in trading markets.

Nevertheless, if trading is inevitable, it should be implemented not in a p2v way and minimize incentives for RMT / monopoly of items & manipulate market pricings.

5

There’s a simpler way. All items are tradable for one hour or until you log out, whichever comes first. Done.

1 Like
6

I think a gold based AH system would benefit the game since rerolling stats requires so much gold.

Have you ever tried to get that perfect roll on an item that is one stat away from being perfect?

The AH would solve that. Instead of having to spend tens of millions of gold trying to get that last stat to be good you could just buy one on the AH. Sure they may charge upwards of 100m gold to buy it but you can focus an item you need and farm up the gold you want to pay.

The gold based AH should be in the game since people are already using discord and other services to trade gear.

Blizzard are already losing money to RMT because i get spammed with friend requests constantly offering boosts and items.

Adding a gold based AH will kill off most of the bots that offer RMT. It will be healthy for the game and it will be healthy for blizzard the company.

1 Like
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It’s obvious that you just don’t want it to be true.
The MMO elements are fact, I’m just mentioning. No wishes.

But it’s sad, you missed the whole good part.
The part thats wired to the topic, not gonna discuss irrelevant things.

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No matter how complex a trading system one comes up with, it will have the main flaw that trading brings; hurting the loot hunt by making it too easy to get loot.

As for this particular idea, and RMT;

That would seem easy to circumvent.

RMT Buyer puts up “trash item X” for 1 billion gold (or your new trading currency, the result is the same). Nobody in their right mind want to pay that for the trash item, so it will still be there when the RMT Seller looks at the AH. RMT Seller pays 1 billion for the item. Now RMT Buyer got 1 billion gold (so for gold selling this would be the end point).
Then RMT Seller puts up the item that the RMT Buyer actually wanted to get (and paid for outside the game). Also for 1 billion gold. Even though the item is amazing, 1 billion gold is much more than the item is worth on the market, so nobody wants to buy it.
Except for that RMT Buyer who just received a billion gold a moment ago so they could buy the item.

Yeah, this on the other hand is the right approach, any trading system needs significant trading fees to function. Both the seller and buyer should pay a trading fee to the ‘system’ beyond the price for the item itself. The fee should be mostly static per type of goods being sold. A weapon would always have the same base fee, regardless of its quality, sale price, etc. and then a small % fee of the price too. The fee could go up each day of the season, to correspond to the wealth acquisition that will happen over time.
As an example, the trade fee (for both seller and buyer) could be 25 million gold in base fee + 20% of the item price.
As long as the fee is high enough, this protects the lower tier items from crashing the market. Since it would just never be worth it to trade those items, as the fee would make it a bad deal for both seller and buyer. Only genuinely high end items would be worth trading, and even there, the fee would ensure that you had to pay extra for the trade, slightly reigning in the immense power of trading. It would not be enough, but it would be a start at least.

Another potential trading solution (in combination with a substantial trading fee) could be that traded items lose some of their power when traded.
Like, a traded item loses 10-20% of its stats.
This would ensure that while you could trade for BiS items, the very best items would still be the ones you might find yourself.
That could be a very positive addition to any trading system tbh.
(any crafting mats would similarly need to be marked if traded, of course, so any item crafted with those traded mats also had their stats lowered)

Of course it does. You cant just implement a massive power boost into a game, and expect it to not affect the game and the players.

9

id prefer if items were just tradeable in groups where the item was achieved. would support group farming greatly.

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It will never be an mmo.
Accept that.
You ppl ruin it for the oldskool ppl.
Casuals.
Meh

11

If it’s like the trade in D3 thats fine so long as it don’t affect solo players drop chance. In D3 it did not affect me as a solo player. Might take longer but I’m ok whith that.

1 Like
12

Addressing to friends can be a seperate system like the gifting being developed in last epoch. It will require an in game earned token called resonance in order to gift to a friend outside of the in group + in same map timer already in the game

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Ok, let`s say they implement a new currency - Blood Token (BT) that you get from events Helltide…

You do like 1-3 Helltides a day - A bot does 10 of them with 100 characters. So you can see who will have more tokens. Bots can easily control the market and they can sell Blood tokens to player.

The item takes 30minutes to go to the Trade market. Player will put a White item costing 100.031.213 Blood tokens. A bot will buy this item after 30minutes and the player will get the Blood Token… Real money selling here.

Players dont care if they have to wait 30minutes - 1hour to get the thing they paid online, In Brazil for example, every online buy you can cancel at any time and even after receiving the item physically or Online you have 7 days to return and get your money back. So players really dont care for the wait, because they will have their item or money back.

Dont underestimate the way people find loopholes to get money on the game. The only way to SLOW down bots, are having trading only available to items dropped in your party. Even so, you have bots selling rare items on Diablo by partying with players and the bots keep killing the rare that spawns until it drops 830-840 item power item.

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They would need to hire an equivalent amount of support staff as for players in WoW.
Each trading system can be broken in many ways and exploited for cheating or manipulating the game.

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1 and DONE trading.
Trade item and it’s yours/theirs forever.
No tycoons nor item consortiums.

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Discussed here yesterday.

There’s good discussion in the thread.

Edited - a fellow user pointed out my poor choice of words.

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Simple you put it for x and market list it for y that and modify one parameter up or down in the buyer view. Even you or a friend looking for it as a buyer will rarily if ever find it. You get what you listed it as, the buyer gets what they want, everyone wins. So if you put up something that is almost perfect and the game makes it perfect to obfusicate then the buyer and the game wins becasue it will be another gold sink with the difference being taken out of the game. Ohh and deliberatly listing something out of range can simply be shadow banned. Those aren’t your bits anyway.

18

It would actually take a long time for sellers to earn enough in-game currency before being able to do absurd prices just for the mechanic you mentioned.

But since their would be no addressing, people could look for those offers and add similar offers, there is no assurance the seller would buy the correct elixir for 1 billion.
This is making it impossible for sellers to act correctly.

The fee is as you said an additive approach.
As the fee is connected to the price set, going for 1 billion, or just prices other player won’t usually pay for anything, the fee would cost a lot and would make it even more difficult close to impossible.

Guys let me add something to this.
The system I mentioned, worked.
There were no sellers for anything in Bless Unleashed.

It’s economically not rewarding for seller.

19

‘‘Trading, PvP and Grinding were the aspects that kept Diablo 2 alive for so many years.’’

this.

but blizzard doesnt care about that. they just sold us an unfinished game whit no trading, bad PvP and no end game for 100$ bucks… thats all that matters for them. atleast they havent sold 30 millions copy of this crap this time.

3 Likes
20

Every time they allowed trading in Diablo, it was used against them.
I hope they won’t make that mistake again. But since it’s Blizzard, who knows?