Level 85 Flurry Rogue, normally running Nightmare dungeons 8-12 level above me (Can do +20 as long as its not range heavy, but its slow). Certain ranged mobs are the only thing that will delete my health from full. Wraith and I think Arcanist are the names.
5945 Armor
6660 Health
9% Damage Reduction
50% Damage Reduction from Close Enemies.
Aspect of Might - 20% Damage reduction from basic attacks.
Aspect of Disobedience - Armor gained based on x number of enemies hit. This is pretty huge in aoe packs where flurry hits a lot of them. You can even put this on your amulet and get increase effect. Iâve seen it jump up to 10-12k armor.
Aspect of the Crowed Sage - Healing per second based on close enemies. Have this on my Amulet for up to 431 life per second. This one I may switch out but Iâm unsure as there really much left in terms of defensive or offensive really.
Aspect of Bursting Venoms. Critical hits have a chance to spawn poison pools that reset the CD of your Poison Imbue. This gives high uptime with poison imbue which nets another 15% damage reduction through the ability Debilitating Toxins.
Deathtrap, Poison Trap and Frost Imbue are a great way to CC targets to help clear packs if you are having issues staying alive.
Last note, some dungeons are extremely cc heavy. So Iâm running Shadow Clones (5 seconds unstoppable to deal with the heavy cc elite packs), Shadowstep (Running the aspect that gives 2 charges, more unstoppable) and Concealment (this is my oh crap Iâm ccâd again button).
2 Likes
Iâm not saying the class is broken. Iâm trying to indicate that the class is limited on survivability based on the class kit itself. Of all the damage reduction items listed, only the passive and the Bursting Venoms aspect are class specific to rogue. The others are available to other classes that do have survivability or damage reducing CCs built into their kits.
Druids have heavy fortify mechanics that can be built around. Sorcs have barriers and heavy CC at their disposal (though their offensive power is so low that who cares if you surviveâŚ). Barbs are just crazy at the moment in both categories. Havenât dealt with necro much so I donât know where they sit defense wise.
I just wish there was some aspect of defense or sustain that the rogue class specialized in. We seems to have a little bit of healing, some hard CC if you really combo into it, and a great DR cooldown that doesnât have enough up time. Maybe something around windows of extreme dodge chance so we can get in, own a bunch of enemies, and then vanish out of sight.
Rogue is a kill before you get killed class. their survivability is based on killing enemies fast, CCing enemies before they CC you and always on the attack to gain health from siphoning strike. If you see range enemies, prioritize killing them. Range enemies are annoying if left alone even on my barb and druid. Hence I always charge and kill them first when I see them.
1 Like
Maybe try other ways if reducing damage. Iâm not too far along yet. I also had to to drop from tier 2 because I was having problems like you. I havenât figured it out yet. Like, one boss had all of these homing missiles and that never went away, so all of the positioning tactics were a fail because I had to soak damage somehow. I couldnât figure it out. But Iâm sure thereâs a lot of stuff out there that arenât spec related.
I think focusing on dmg reduction is a losing strategy for rogue. You need to focus on CC, dodge speed and positioning related methods of reducing damage, I think. Maybe like chill or slow, definitely knockdown, stun, daze. I canât manage to play these flurry style players. Iâve been rolling puncture and penetrating shot. Most damage comes from latter and the rest is about recovering energy and moving a lot
Disobedience, might, protector, dmg reduction rolls on a couple pieces and boomâŚ. Not squishy, Iâm doing nightmares much higher than my current level and not having an issue. Donât sleep on defensive stats
Lorewise who would you expect to be most squishy?
The Sorcerers that can incase themselves in magical barriers, enchantments and elemental protection?
Or the guy in the leather clothes, thatâs very has and pretty handy with a knife?
Well lore wise rogues should be like a get in and get out class and when you nerf cdr on TB it makes it not so much a get in and get out class.
1 Like
thanks for trolling, it is keeping the thread in the algorithm and making it more likely that blizzard will think my opinion is popular. im not suggesting the character is unplayable, im suggesting that it needs a small buff to armor and life.
Is anyone really trolling other than you? There is nothing wrong with your opinion and others might necessarily feel the same way as you, so this thread ultimately valuable because it contains advice from other players on how to solve the issue if youâre feeling particularly squishy.
Instead of following it or explaining in detail exactly what youâve tried, all youâve done is cry about how youâve spent all your money respecing (into what exactly?) and youâve maxed âall the defensive optionsâ (which were?) before topping the cake with âIâve been playing Diablo since 97â Bro this is a different game, how are you gonna expect that to help you here?
It might be fair to say that over all Rogue is squishier than the other classes but itâs not an unsurmountable issue. Other players have made it past where you are so learn from them. Otherwise drop your world difficulty to 1 or switch to a different class.
Sincerely, a fellow rogue, level 80 doing tier 37 nightmare dungeons, and not getting âoverpowered by literally any mobâ.
That seems to be what the Agility passive is for (use a cooldown to engage and buff your dodge chance, kill mobs, then disengage). However, the duration is pretty short. Iâm also unsure if there are enough sources of +Dodge chance for the stat to become a reliable defensive layer at endgame.
How is dodge calculated in this game, anyway? Do consecutive dodges have diminishing dodge chance ala Path of Exile?
1 Like
In the âearly endgameâ, rogue really does feel squishy. But that changes later on. Once you stacked up some survivability and crowd control uniques, you can facetank most situations on tier 4.
1 Like
My understanding is that they are multiplicative so you can never hit 100% dodge (without the lego board power related to Inner Sight which only lasts 1.5 seconds). Hereâs the possible sources and max values of dodge you can get:
- 1 Dex = .01% dodge for all classes
- 5.8% Dodge Chance x2 (pants, boots)
- 8.6% Dodge vs Close (pants)
- 10.5% Dodge vs Distant (boots)
- 12% dodge for 3 seconds after cooldown (Agile passive 3/3)
- 8% dodge vs enemies with active dots (Assimilation aspect)
Even if dodge was additive, the max you can reach through gear, talents, and passives is:
- 23.6 + dex vs All
- 32.2 + dex vs Close
- 34.1 + dex vs Distant
- 40.2 + dex vs Close and DoT
- 42.1 + dex vs Distant and DoT
Event at 500 dex, youâre looking at only and additional 5% dodge chance. This is pretty high but Agile wonât be up full time and youâve burned 4 total affixes on pants and boots, an aspect, and 3 talent points. There is a feedback loop with Dark Shroud to consider. If you are avoiding hits, your orbs will remain longer and the Umbrous aspect has a better chance of keeping you topped off. I still think youâre better off using DR over an all-or-nothing roll.
3 Likes
still keeping the thread alive i see. there are a bunch of good ideas in here now, and i definitely have you to thank for that. i havent given up on the rogue yet.
My rogue is very tanky.
Make sure your helm chest and legs youâre favoring total armor and max life.
Make sure youâre using a poison ability with debilitating toxins (15%) less damage from poisoned enemies.
Make sure you have siphoning strikes if you have Twisted Blades.
Run Dark Shroud if you need it but personally Iâve dropped it on my Death Trap build. I run Puncture, Twisting Blades, Dash, Shadow Step, Poison Trap and Death Trap. Iâm tanky, I can aoe down large packs, and I melt bosses in single target.
Aspect wise Protector grants a barrier when you do damage to elites. Might provides 20% damage reduction when you use a basic skill and Disobedience boosts your armor when you do damage.
I have a rogue spread sheet I can share if youâd like.
Hey, I know being chronically online diminishes brain cells, but if you read to what he was replying, youâd know that - yes - he was trolling. Saying, âYouâre right, rogue sucks, everyone here is wrong, Blizzard should give us all refunds,â etc. is unassailably trolling.
But you tell him heâs trolling? Lmao.
Sounds like the only person here who canât handle disagreement is you. Someone says something you disagree with, so you call them a troll?
I encourage you to employ what remains of your brain and think about things before you talk.
Iâm having issues myself. 
youâre correct, I think. Notice the ppl âgiving adviceâ are just telling you to get the defensive passives. As if that hasnât occurred to you.
And notice other people giving their skill loadouts are using 2, 3 defensives. Lol.
If you have to use multiple defensives, you havenât solved the problem. And it doesnât mean the class isnât squishy. I want to use imbuements and traps etc. I donât want to take up two slots with defensives.
Rogue needs some fortify or barrier of some kind.
But till then, Iâve found something that (reasonably) works: stun grenade, frost imbuement, and flurry. Bc flurry heals when you damage someone who is CCed or vulnerable, and you can juggle back and forth between frost imbuement and stun grenade to ensure the mob group is always cced, itâs a regular source of burst healing. (Though I admit I have a legendary gear that makes flurry an aoe around you, but I donât think that should impact things too much since flurryâs heal already has a cap anyways)
Now if youâre a bow rogue, as I was, I have nothing for you lmao. Frost caltrops, frost imbuement, poison traps etc are pretty good at keeping them locked down. But youâre way too easily overwhelmed, esp in groups with 3+ mobs with âincreased healthâ (eg invincible) and/or elites.
Which is why I changed to this flurry build.
I hope you can find this helpful I want to like rogue a lot but it is diminishing my experience that I feel so damn squishy
Required to take heal Flurry if meleeing unfortunately
At lvl 44 World lvl 2 currently taking:
healing Concealment / Cold imbue / Poison trap knockdown / heal Flurry / Rapid Fire / Blade Shift
At higher levels with higher talents Energy regen is less of a problem;
Blade Shift
saves your butt with its elemental resist, free move, move speed, and cc reduction
Rapid Fire has unlimited energy
when enemy is Vulnerable; you apply Vulnerable with this build through Cold talents, stealth talents, and Flurry spreading talents
Donât have to wait until lvl 44 to be good,
lvl 25+ Rogue was finally fun and I decided I liked this game
youâd know that - yes - he was trolling
But you tell him heâs trolling? Lmao.
⌠what? You confirm heâs trolling and you have a problem with me calling him out on it? If you look at all my replies prior to that one, I was being helpful as are most people on this thread.
How am I being the defensive one other than calling you guys out being babies? âIâve been playing since 97, this shouldnât be happening to meâ is cringe on all levels first off, and not being open to the advice of the players that know how to make the class work is pretty much just you looking for an echo chamber to confirm what youâve already decided in your mind, not confirming any reality in the world. The class is squishy, no one denies it but itâs part of the gameplay style and class identity. If you have a problem with that, play on a lower difficulty or change classes to something youâd enjoy more.
Iâm having issues myself. youâre correct, I think. Notice the ppl âgiving adviceâ are just telling you to get the defensive passives. As if that hasnât occurred to you.
Ah so youâre white knighting for him because you are in the same boat, just circle jerking each other because you canât figure it out.
And notice other people giving their skill loadouts are using 2, 3 defensives. Lol.
I donât want to take up two slots with defensives.
Defensive options are in the game to prevent you from getting one shot, and is a mechanic in Diablo 4. All classes eventually need defensive stats from one source or another if youâre entering and pushing end game content, and thatâs literally what all the people giving advice is telling you. Maybe youâre not far enough into the game to understand that, or perhaps youâre right and being âchronically online diminishes brain cellsâ and all of this alludes you.
Rogue needs some fortify or barrier of some kind.
Temerity: it synergizes well with Siphoning Strikes if youâre playing melee Rogue. And before you start crying about how you donât want to be forced to take a specific item, itâs an option - take it or leave it.
Rogueâs tankiness is fine UNTIL around NM tier 80 ish, i went in couple 90s, the projectiles from range mobs just straight up one shot me, there was nothing I could have done to prevent that. I really donât think we are meant to clear those as melee. If you are a pen shot rogue, there might still a chance for you to clear 100, you just have to be EXTREMELY cautious and snipe them from a mile away and most importantly pray to RNG god you donât have some nasty elites
1 Like
sounds like a skill issue, respectfully. rogue was meant to be a squishy, high skill cap char that can do huge dmg. have you considered trying a tankier class like a bear druid, barb, or necromancer?
@ [PrjctSphynx] maybe blizzard messed up this class. Shame it is my fav class. Archetypically, rogues are not warriors, they canât take much damage, but rogues types in theory are supposed to have superb defense in the sense that, use subterfuge (smoke, stealth, decoys, shadow powers) speed and agility, parries, traps, combat maneuvers etc. you get the point.
Is not whether they can take hits, is whether they get hit in the first place, or are even detected. Rogues live for that critical damage, bypassing armor and crippling enemies.
I wonder if blizzard forgot about what a rogue really is about?