You admitting it is impossible for you to tell me that D4 isn’t a successor to D2 doesn’t make my point?
Okay guy.
I’m saying that “don’t mention any D2 specific mechanic” and “mention any D2 specific mechanic” are mutually exclusive.
“A” and “not A” are mutually exclusive. Alghebra basics.
Same. I much prefer the skill rune system from D3. I think the D4 system we got now was their (poor) attempt at combining D3 and D2’s skill systems, which ultimately made D4 have it’s own sort of thing but… Idk. It just feels so limited. Maybe they can fix some of the game’s other issues, but I don’t think they’ll expand skill trees. I think this is one problem we’re stuck with in this game, and that’s disappointing.
I think the reason why I dislike the skill tree in D4 is that while it appears like there are more choices than say, D3, it’s all an illusion. In D4 each skill has one required upgrade and then two optional nodes to choose from, right? But in D3 that required upgrade would be baseline baked into the skill, and instead of having 2 node choices, we had 5 rune options (6 technically, but only niche builds ever used base runes so I won’t even count that). So instead of adding depth and choice w/ skills, they’ve managed to remove a majority of all skill choices while giving the illusion of more choice by using a tree-system and making players put multiple points into skills.
Same thing with the passives. Most seem directly tied to certain builds/playstyles meaning there’s no real option to choose different passives if you’re playing certain builds. In D3, passive choice is more limited, as you could only pick 4 passive skills. But the passives you could choose from felt much more impactful as a result.
D4’s system feels so much more limited compared to previous games, wrapped in an illusion of choice. If they added more “end-node” (sorry idk what else to call it) options to skills, I feel like I’d be fine with it. But instead it feels like we actually lost content, and the game regressed in some way.
Oh look more “D4 isn’t literally just D2” cope. Just go play D2 then ffs.
Doom and Doom 2016 / Doom Eternal share the same DNA even though the mechanics are not the same.
Things like BFG tracers don’t define the doom DNA. Most people likely couldn’t even tell you how that BFG actually worked in Doom but they liked shooting in it Doom and in Doom 2016.
What, in the DNA/Soul of the game do you suggest makes D4 not the descendant of D2? As far as I can see it is a pretty faithful successor in terms of soul/vibe. Again, don’t describe specific mechanics, what in the heart/soul of the game is different? I doubt you could say.
What in the DNA/Soul of the game do you suggest makes D4 the descendant of D2? Don’t describe visuals nor skill tree.
See it? I can also make my custom rules and force you to adapt.
I already did my dude.
Oh. And both are videogames. And they both are played by players. I get it.
Try to make a list like this with D2:
No thanks.
I’m not going to deny that D4 is more like D3, just like I wouldn’t deny Doom Eternal is more like Doom 2016 than the OG even though it is a return to the darker tone, the old dark gothic visual style, older monster designs. Doom Eternal definitely has the old Doom DNA though.
Saying Doom Eternal is a sequel to Doom 2016 but not a sequel to the original Doom / Doom 2 is nonsense though. Same as saying D4 is not a sequel to D2.
He quoted object facts. The game is a straight copy of D3. That would be fine if they had worked for the last 10 years at improving the D3 experience, but D3 has barely changed since loot 2.0 very early in its lifecycle.
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Fine if that’s your threshold.
Ones will require a carbon copy for saying that’s a successor, others will say it even if they look as similar as a chicken and a potato. In my case it’s none of those 2, but taking the most iconic features, perhaps even evolving them, and changing everything else.
So when you do things like not even including the Horadric (or Kanai) Cube in a new Diablo game, then you’re not making a successor of D2. Keep in mind that I’m talking about a feature that wasn’t even present in the original Diablo1, but it did become part of its DNA once it appeared and became an iconic part of the franchise. Not my words, but the words of former D4’s Lead System Designer.
For 99+% (see what I did here?) of D2 fans, the exciting loot hunt was one of the main pillars. So inheriting the itemization of a game like D3, and especially the 2.0 version of that itemization, that was so bad that made the loot hunt to become a residual part of the game, is not making a true successor of D2 to me. OFC it won’t be a valid point to you if you put your “successor threshold” below the ground.
I don’t think that someone who doesn’t like D2 could be the best suited person to decide what’s a successor of D2.
Pigments on two different canvases might have the same material composition but their arrangement matters. You can’t say two paintings are the same just because they used the same materials if the subject matter evokes a different feeling, on the flip side just because one painting is digital and one is physical doesn’t per-say make them different pieces of art - is the digital version of the Mona Lisa not the same as the painting when you view it?
Check it out, little bro. Your stupid little quoted text doesnt prove any points just because it has the “=” sign between forced similarities. Im not obligated to give you any reasons why the games are not the same because you didnt give any reasons how they are.
Again, young try-hard, thanks for trying.
Then, according to your words, this post of yours doesn’t prove that they’re forced similarities just because you’ve said that they’re “forced similarities”.
Keep in mind that if you try to cheat at reasoning, I can also use your own cheats back on you. And it’s fun.
Man, I love D2 and will continue to play it on occasion, but designing a game like Diablo 2 simply wouldn’t fly today. We can play and appreciate Diablo 2 because we can contextualize that the game came out 20ish years ago, but if Diablo 2 released today as it was in 2000? Nah. It wouldn’t maintain relevancy beyond two weeks.
Why does D4 need to be D2 when D2 is D2 and D2r is D2?
I think that “it depends”.
It depends on which features you take from D2.
For example: bringing the charms to D4 making them to steal room in the inventory like it was back in D2, I agree that it’s something that pretty sure wouldn’t work nowadays.
But do you think that most of the rest of D2 itemization would harm D4 in any way nor preventing it to fly? Of course I’m talking about the general idea, the concepts and so on. I mean: runewords, but not making them so OP that render uniques into useless like it was back in D2. Uniques that don’t feel so streamlined with all of them having a fixed number of 4 affixes, all of them shared with the generic item affix pool, and unable to being distinguished from a legendary. Rares that are actually rare. And that can be used by themselves instead of being just a piece to create a legendary. “+ to skills” that arent that evenly and streamlinedly distributed among all the slots so they feel special. Sets that are capable of facing endgame without being the pivotal point of all the endgame itemization nor having convoluted bonuses. Etc. I think that those wouldn’t just don’t prevent the game to fly, but to also fly higher.
Or bosses. I liked boss runs very much. I understand that people nowadays wouldn’t want the game to be as boss-centric as D2 was. But would there be any issue if they were one more of the game’s activities? Aren’t people also complaining about NM Dungeons being repetitive? Wouldn’t this add a bit more variety? People are also complaining about helltide being boring because of mindlessly slaying mobs. Wouldn’t that be the perfect counterpoint? Think about it: helltide focuses around regular mobs, NM Dungeons are a compromise that has both regular mobs and a boss focusing on the first ones, and boss runs would be the perfect closure of the circle. Not mentioning the world bosses, as they’re some kind of massive multiplayer content that you can only play for like 5 mins each X hours.
Horadric cube. I think it rocks. I don’t think that it would cause a problem to anyone if being part of the game. And it’s something original that escapes from the standarized concept of “artisans” present in every game.
I honestly think that many D2 features that were sexy, could still be sexy for a new game in 2023. I see no problem nor cause anyone to like the game less.
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Don’t think that anyone said that.
While i do agree with some points you’ve made, i don’t want another D2 that’s why we got D2R and couldn’t be happier with it, however the trading/itemization systems should have been brought from D2 (runewords) and a better chat/LFG system if you’re going the “MMO” route you NEED a way for players to communicate with one another in game otherwise its pointless, i mean they have copied the worst traits of games such as Lost Ark/Diablo Immoral, why not the best traits of one of their best games…
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Not every arpg needs to be a copy/paste of D2, although they could have at least copied the more open trading system and rune words over from D2.
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