[Suggestion] Two Skills and Itemization solutions

Skills and Itemization solution 1

This suggestion is based on the idea that most of the characters power should come from points invested in the skill tree and not from items, that you’re building your character the way you want by choosing the skills you want and tuning the skills by investing in the nodes attached to those skills.

Step One: move skill specific powers on items to the skill tree

This is the most important step. Move each skill specific Legendary power from the item to the skill tree as a power node and connect it to that specific skill. The player can invest in multiple power nodes for a specific skill. Move each skill specific Unique power from the item to the skill tree as a unique power node and connect it to that specific skill. The player can invest in only one unique power node for a specific skill. Redefine current skill specific nodes as a power or unique power node. Let players use simpler nodes to tune a skill to their liking.

Example

Whirlwind (0/5)
→ Nodes:

  • Increased Movement Speed while Whirlwinding (0/3)
  • Increased AoE while Whirlwinding (0/3)
  • Increased Attack Speed while Whirlwinding (0/3)

→ Power Nodes:

  • Whirlwind pulls in enemies (0/1)
  • Gain 1 Fury each time Whirlwind … (0/1)
  • While using a Slashing weapon … Whirlwind … Bleeding … (0/1)
  • After using Whirlwind for 2 seconds, Whirlwind … (0/1)

→ Unique Power Nodes (players can chose only one)

  • Whirlwind explodes after it ends, dealing … (0/1)

Step Two: move class specific Legendary powers on items to a Paragon Board

This will also make the Paragon Boards more interesting as you'll have more interesting options to chose from.

Step Three: move class specific Unique powers on items to the Capstone node in the skill tree

This will give players more options when they are ready to chose their build defining Capstone node.

Keep Legendary/Unique powers that do something for multiple classes on items.
Use items mostly for toughness and utility stats like extra health, extra defense, extra resistances and extra movement speed and to boost skills i.e. +1 to Rend and +5% to Fire damage. 80% of the attack power should come from the skills. The rest of the attack power can come from the items and the Paragon Boards.

Q&A

Will moving Legendary and Unique powers to the Skill Tree make the Skill Tree too big and complex?

The Skill Tree as it is now is really sparse. Adding these extra nodes will make the current sparse Skill Tree into more of an actual Skill Tree.

How about respec costs? Will it go through the roof when you add new nodes?

Node respecs are free so you can finetune your build at any time. The respec costs for power nodes are low. The respec cost for unique nodes are higher especially when you have a high level character, but this is also with good reason: to make your build unique and to make sure you think well about how you want to build your character.

I like Legendary items that open up new build possibilities. I want Legendary items to drop with cool powers.

There are still Legendary items dropping. These have powers that can be used by multiple classes. The class specific Legendary powers are still accessible in the Skill Tree, so you can plan your build in advance or experiment with different builds.

You won't have enough skill points when you add so many nodes

You can add more quests or tasks that reward skill points.

It will be too much work and it will never get implemented

The animation, sounds, logic for each Legendary and Unique power is already in the game. It just needs to be moved.

In the future a lot of new class specific powers will be added and it won't fit into the Skill Tree. The Skill Tree will literally explode. Adding the powers to items is much better.

If the Skill Tree gets too big, you can split it up. Diablo II for example has Skill Tabs. Another way is when players click a skill in the Skill Tree a separate window opens up with a subtree for that specific skill.

At the start of each season I want to find new and exciting Legendary items and start a build around those random item drops instead of choosing the same old skills in the Skill Tree

Add those new and exciting Legendary items each season and move the Legendary powers to the Skill Tree at the end of the season.

How about Legendary items that give access to skills of other classes?

Here's where Runewords can be introduced to the game. The rarest Runes are so hard to find that, once your acquire them, they give access to Runewords that give players access to skills of other classes, which is otherwise impossible.

Skills and Itemization solution 2

The same as the previous solution but now you only move Legendary and Unique powers that increase the damage output for a skill or multiple skills with a direct damage boost to the Skill Tree or Paragon Board.
Higher damage for a specific skill? +100% minion bonus damage? More minions? More meteors? Move it to the skill tree.
Whirlwind now pulls in enemies? Two hydras instead of one and each of those hydras does 50% damage? Mana regeneration increased? Leave it on an item.

Skills and Itemization solution 3

Replace all raw damage mods on Legendary and Unique items to +1-3 to Skill Rank. For example change +30% increased Steel Grasp damage to +1 Rank of Steel Grasp. This is the most simple solution to transfer item power to skill power.

Skills and Itemization solution 4

Increase the maximum skill points a player can assign to a skill, for example from 5 to 12, and make sure the damage from those assigned skill points adds the most to the skills damage, i.e. when you found and maxed out everything else in the game it shouldn't surpass 100% extra damage on top of the maxed out 12/12 skill damage.

Note: when increasing the max points for a skill you’ll also need to increase the number of skill points a player can attain during questing and leveling, for example by increasing the number of quests that reward skill points or by rewarding more skill points in total while leveling your character to level 100.

Note: when you can invest more points into a skill the power curve will probably be (a lot) smoother as you’ll get more power from skill points for longer, i.e. when investing your skill points each time you level up. This is especially important in relation to monster level scaling. Once you max out a skill and you run out of ways to increase skill damage and monsters do get stronger, you’ll as a result feel weaker.

TLDR

Proposed multiple solutions to make character power come more from skills and less from items. I trust the Diablo IV developers to use this input and other community feedback to improve Diablo IV in a way which fits their vision of the game as well as the vision of the majority of the Diablo fans.
2 Likes

fix the itemization hierarchy not a scrambled mess on the items. would like to see more player power in the skill tree rather than some item legendary uniqe that is not a build add on % dmg modifer removed and worked into skill tree

Good stuff, hopefully they take some of all these skill tree feedbacks into consideration, not for launch because that’s impossible, but for the future.

1 Like

I think it’s really two different issues that interact in a weird way.

Like the skill twig is just a complete mess as it is.
Limited load-out is supposed to be customizable to fit what you’re doing. Like Having a work shed and picking the right tools for the job to take with you. Having every aspect of your character tied up in the tree completely goes against that

The legendary effects wouldn’t actually be an issue if the skill tree wasn’t making them an issue.
If you could freely adjust, finding them would be more exciting than just a chore

I understand the core of the game is grinding for item drops. I understand the items have to be lucrative for that to work.
I don’t understand why finding said lucrative item requires reworking a skill tree so your character can compliment the item.

Just feels completely backwards.

I stopped my pre-order and put the game on the wait and see list. The demo really filled me with a dread that this game will just be the bad kind of grind

1 Like

You are telling them to base the game from D2 and not D3, don’t you think PPL didn’t try this back in 2013 and that Jay Wilson guy even made jokes about D2 creator, what a clown.

all of our base dmg is set on the weapon we have on why blizz it sucked in d3 and why bring it back

To rework how skills and legendary powers interact and are setup by looking more closely at Diablo II.

1 Like

yes, but you can’t if you use D3 mechanic instead.