Nope. If you are forced to pay for respecs you should also be forced to spend the skill points manually every time.
So many respec cost threads lol… guys, blizz has already decided to keep the cost. Get over it 
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Nope. I think it’s a dumb descision and will tell it in every respec cost thread. Just don’t read them 
Because providing feedback - before a game comes out - about certain aspects of that game - on the forums that blizz provided us to do literally that - is a bad thing. Thanks for your oh so valuable attempt at adding useful information to the discussion at hand though. 
I mean, it increases the “cost” of respecs in a roundabout way, so I am not too much against it. But it sure is a silly design.
But if the reason for the respec costs is that you should be more aware of your build and how to skill your charakter you should also spend the skill points accordingly.
Let’s be honest. The majority of the players will just copy some cookie cutter builds from streamers and theory crafters. So this “reason” for respec costs is somehow irrelevant anyway. The costs will just encourage botters to bot and discourage players to try out OWN builds and and experiment a little and that’s a pity to me.
That isn’t really a reason though. At least not one I have seen many people, if any, mention.
The main reason is to reduce the ability to make specialized builds for every occasion. Thus making you have to choose strengths and weaknesses for your build. Even if you copy someones build, that still holds true, you just delegated the thinking part to someone else.
Yep, most people will copy builds. With or without respec costs. But also a non-issue imo. If someone want to copy a build, that is their choice.
Instead they make a character for every occasion. Is that really better? And what’s wrong to HAVE special builds for everything. I think I told this already before. When I talk about respeccing I do NOT mean being able to switch the build by the click of one button so you can react on every type of enemy immediately.
I think i.e. at world bosses where you want players to come with the best fitting build to kill the boss as fast as possible. If I have to pay for the respec I won’t do it just for a boss fight.
It is better yes, albeit not perfect.
Better because lvling a new chaaracter is a cost on its own.
And there are things you cant do with multiple characters that you can do with a respec as it currently stands (mid-activity respecs especially).
But yeah, more should be done there, to ensure it is unviable to use multiple characters as a way to circumvent the respec cost.
Pretty sure most people who want respec costs, specifically do NOT want the above to happen. That very much is the point.
Hopefully basically nobody will. Otherwise the cost is not high enough.
That’s what I specifically excluded with:
It will not take much time that people will find a way to power level twinks. So this is not a valid point for long.
I’m confused. You do NOT want people to have propper gear to play efficient when they join you? I mean in D3 you even were kicked when your speed build for bounties wasn’t fast enough for the group. I can NOT imagine this is what people have in mind when they are PRO respect cost.
I fear that for sure. Still a small cost is more than no cost.
Yes.
Specialized builds for different content is uninteresting.
Well, more people than me have outright stated that is exactly what they wanted.
And yes, bounty speed builds is a great example of how stupid those frequent respecs are.
Just searched this thread for the term “build” and coudn’t find a single one stating the same. Do you have any examples?
Shadout doesn’t want the “meta” builds to be builds that are “optimized per activity”. That has been their argument … the types of builds that will become meta if we have free respecs.
They have argued for a while that they believe that will come about as a result of free respecs as they argue that is all you see in Diablo 3 … despite a bout of digging into people’s accounts and seeing variations just in that small sampling.
They have ignored that we see optimized builds for various activities even in games such as Path of Exile that do not have free respecs (rather far from it) but do have builds specialized for mapping, boss-killing, etc.
They have ignored that we see plenty of non-optimized builds played in the games with free respecs (Diablo 3, Guild War 2, Warframe, etc.)
They have continued to ignore the side-effects of what they are asking for such as how they affect players who enjoy experimentation, swapping between single and multiplayer, etc.
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Not going to look through thousands of posts, you are welcome to do it if you want to. But there have been plenty of them.
Here is one referring to not wanting it at least.
You might also look for the ton of posts talking about how free respeccing changes the game to a balance where you want/need to always be optimized. Same point. If we cant be optimized for each challenge, the challenges wont require that optimization.
Anyway, I likely cant make you believe something you dont want to, so Ill just reiterate that, yeah, not being able be optimized for every activity very much is what I want to see in the game. With the natural consequence of that being; in a group of players in some activity, the players should generally not be optimized for it (some might of course, because that activity happens to be what they specialized for, regardless of the cost in other activities).
Yep.
Not at all. But those builds optimized for one activity also have drawbacks when they want to do anything else.
I dont want specialized builds to be useless. They should just be equal to generalized builds, due to not being able to get full value of their specialization.
He’ll also see that was rebutted by the facts that:
- not all players are doing that as there are additional costs to swapping that not all find worth it
- it requires farming, upgrading, rerolling, and managing the items for each spec
- it requires learning each spec and how to use it
And how the power of a build, thus how it fits within the balance of the game, is independent of the ability to respec as the power from a build comes from build = class + level + spec + gear.
- RandomJoe with buildA they respec’d to completes content X
- JohnDoe with buildA they always used completes content X
- RandomJoe with buildB they respec’d to complets content Y
- JaneDoe with buildB they always used completes content Y
If there is a balance issue, its with buildA vs contentX or with buildB vs contentY.
- That balance issue would be because the build itself does not fall within the build power considered in the range intended by the devs
- There is no difference between RandomJoe using that build versus JohnDoe or JaneDoe using it … as the build is the issue … not whether they always used it or respec’d to it.
Why? Not all builds are equal. In fact I’d argue that it’s more common for builds to be unequal. Why should general and specialized be equal? Spoons != Forks != Sporks.
We see more general builds in the games with free respecs … often used by those who don’t want to respec and/or simply find that build to be the most enjoyable for their playstyle.
And these other things that have been ignored again as with previous other items?
Equal in balance, obviously, if that was unclear… Not equal in what they do, very much not that.
And why should a game aim for balance? I hope that is self-explanatory. But if not, because it offers players more viable options to choose between. As well as more interesting gameplay, when player choices are balanced in regards to game challenges.
Strawman. Not literally all you see, but it very much is a common sight. Finding the outlier does not change that.
People generally try to optimize in D3. The game very much asks that of the player.
Just look at Kitchmanns example:
I do hope am wrong, but if the respec ends up being more than few hours of work to do I’ll probably do it if the game is otherwise good… It will likely take what 40 hours with efficient farming, so a weekend to not have to respec as much isn’t that bad.
And what are you evaluating when defining two builds as equal or not?
You obviously don’t know what a strawman is given your misuse above.
Amusingly, you then proceeded to strawman by arguing that it’s “not literally all you see” even though I didn’t say that is “literally all you see”, “all you see” or any derivation of that which you argued against.
The point was that despite the free respecs, one of the very people arguing it would happen wasn’t even doing it nor was I; the very first samples taken.
And, as you just admitted above, “it very much is a common sight”.
So it appears we are getting both optimized and general-use builds being leveraged and enjoyed by the players.
And … you still are ignoring this one … unless you’re counting your admission above that, with respec to non-optimized builds, “it very much is a common sight”
Their efficiency.
How do they perform (how much stuff do you get done in X time) across a wide range of content in for example 10 hours.
=>
You cant make this stuff up Seriously.
Talk about being dishonest! Considering his posts about it.
Getting 99% optimization and 1% fool-around builds or whatever, is not the argument you seem to think it is.
Eh, I didn’t quote it since it said the same thing with different words. So the answer is the same as above.
We even have an example merely a few posts ago, with someone sharing how you likely might get kicked from a group if you showed up to bounties without being specialized for bounties.
I cant know what your experience is from D3, but at minimum it seems different from the experience of anyone I have ever played D3 with, and many people who have expressed their experience on this forum.
“Across a wide range of content”, eh?
So the hyper-optimized builds could then be balanced with the more generalized builds then?
That was me saying that you and others had been making the claim that the optimized builds are “all you see”.
The full quote … not clipped short to remove the context in a dishonest way …
When someone says “Shadout claims that is all you see” … that doesn’t mean that person is claiming that is all you see. That is that person stating that you’ve made that claim. There is a difference. It’s an even bigger difference when that person has been disagreeing and stating the opposite.
Want to try to be honest or are we going to clip things out of context some more to try to make them what they aren’t?
He said it was a farming build.
It did not match the farming build on maxroll.gg that he linked.
What’s dishonest about that? Do please elaborate.
You even followed up and stated that “perhaps it was the most optimal for point he was currently at”.
Should I grab the links for you or are you going to try to turn around the narrative again like you just tried just above this with your quoting out of context?
Just curious.
Where are you getting those numbers?
Just making them up?
My experience is joining clans that were created simply for coordinating groups for one activity or another, using them to find groups instead of random PUGs with afkers, and running a pretty large range of builds from current meta build for farming to whatever I had finished playing around with that was “fast enough”.
The times I’ve seen people get kicked are when 3 people have finished 4 of the 5 acts while one person has yet to finish half of their act. That extreme disparity in work put in is what sometimes gets people kicked and it’s most often indicative of being [semi-]afk which is why it irks people enough to bother kicking. But even then it was rare as most just continued flying through the content and got it done and those people didn’t get to stay in the clans for long.