Overall Feedback/Difficulty Increase

PC General Discussion
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First of all I am enjoying the beta and can’t wait for release. There are obviously some bugs to work out but better than most games in the last few years.

  1. Game difficulty - Needs to be bumped up a level. I am playing on Veteran and it is very easy. Each difficulty needs to be bumped by one level.

  2. Need more mobs - This is supposed to be a hellish end of times scenario right? Need more Demons, maps feel empty half the time. This is even more so when in dungeons with friends. Many times one of us stomps a mob and the other doesn’t get to do anything. (more on this below)

  3. More mob health - Weaker mobs need some more health, they die WAY too easy and fast. (like 20% - 30% more) Elites seem to be ok but could get another 10% - 15% more. Bosses feel fine.

  4. Scaling - INCREASED Scaling difficulty and health for multiplayer groups needs to be in (if it isn’t, doesn’t feel like it) primarily in dungeons/instanced content. As for open world content, it also needs this when multiple players are present in an event or fighting the same group of mobs. Would have to be careful here to not break it. Look to some of the points above on this.

  5. Barb did feel weak at first but then started to feel better as I got further, there is a lot of “barb too weak” posts but I don’t feel that it is that bad. Barb could be looked at a little though.

  6. Druid feels pretty bad and even weaker than Barb as you get higher level (kinda reverse if you will). This is most probably because we don’t have our spirit buffs but there is no way to test that obviously.

  7. Sorc is way too strong. Haven’t played it as I never liked mages but I have watched many streamers and other players in game zoom around and nuke everything. There are plenty of others going into more detail here so I’ll leave this here.

  8. Neckro seems to be pretty strong as well but not as bad as Sorc. It does have issues with requiring corpses for minions that can be a problem in certain places when they are not available. This class is also known as the AFK class since everything can be done by your minions while you go bake a cake. If this is how you intend for it to work then all good.

  9. Dungeon/cellar/other “inside” content. Please STOP DODGING this critique! Many players have given feedback on going inside a dungeon or cellar and the LAYOUT is the same! Stop side stepping and talking about how there are other zones that are different, we know, but they will have the same feedback if we could see them based on what we’ve seen so far. Put a few randomized layouts and objectives in your dungeons/cellars/etc. Seeing the same layout over and over with the same ~2-3 objectives to get to the boss is already getting boring. If this happens at ~20% of the game that we’ve seen, it will only get worse when we see the rest.

  10. Are Strongholds able to be reset? If not can they be? Could be another thing to do to tie rewards to.

I may edit this post to add more later.

I will probably step on someone’s pinky toe from the above comments but remember this is MY feedback on what I have played or seen. That means it is subjective and not wrong, just as your own feedback would fall into the same vein. Don’t turn this into a flame topic like many of the posts on here have devolved into.

Edits:

    1. Clarified that I want increased scaling.
  • added #10
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Agreed. /signed

Agreed. /signed
Some of these dungeon rooms have zero mobs, and it takes a while to find any… bump this up 50x minimum.

Agreed. /signed
Especially since the sorc can just rip through a screen of mobs with a single ability.

Not sure I fully agree. I like the scaling as it prevents the future of power leveling, and thus, the spam in chat for power levels minute 1 of a new season. I say make the scaling even harder for people to get power leveled. Level your character your dang self.

Otherwise, /signed

Agreed, barb is strong as heck - people’s attention spans are 3 seconds, so if they spent longer than 3 seconds on a barb, they’d all know this and stop making ridiculous posts on the forums… Now druids on the other hand? druids suck right now because they lack their masteries. (I’m sure they get better with the masteries though)

Agreed but not /signed - instead of nerfing it, buff everything else. I WANT to feel strong in ARPGs, I WANT to rip through mobs when I have somewhat decent gear, and even faster when I have optimal gear. Everything else needs a buff across the board, but we also need more mob density, and tougher mobs too.

I disagree, Necro is definitely stronger than sorc when the necro can just stand there and the skeles do all the work. AFK XP farm anyone? Especially when you just stand in a spot where mobs respawn. EZPZ leveling.

Agreed /signed

Dungeons feel lackluster right now, they all feel the same, and I’ve noticed the same layout 4/5 dungeons I do… need more variety, more mobs, tougher mobs, more random bosses that can spawn in the dungeons (kinda like The Butcher does), and more randomized loot with more randomized stats. (The gear feels a bit like the dungeons right now, not much variety)

Overall, I enjoyed this post, Crimson and agree with pretty much everything here.

However, this forum is full of a bunch of crybabies right now because of their 3 second attention span and not seeing the full picture like you and I do.

3

Good feedback. I agree a lot on it.
To me the bigest is how much experience we get. I lvl from 1 to 25 in matter of hours. Hope final version that be adusted so it takes longer to lvl up.

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I should have been more clear. I want INCREASED scaling. If there is none then add it. If it is there increase it. Falls into the too easy category. Editing post to reflect.

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mob health and more scaling are kinda the same thing as game difficulty. they will prolly just add a world tier 5 instead of changing everything they did so far.

They deff need more mobs, it did really feel empty at times with large gaps in-between the groups of enemies we did have.

As for balancing the classes I don’t think we can really judge them at lvl 25 imo. We gotta see the endgame.
dungeons do feel a bit bland right now.

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  1. You just wait for nightmare and hell, plenty harder.
  2. See above, you will get density you didn’t think was possible. Trust me people will never complain about to little density in diablo again after seeing what diablo IV offers in late game. Maybe they will say its to much and clutters the screen? Cause that is how crazy it gets.
  3. yeah whatever its tier 2.
  4. meh
  5. Barb is fine, my main has been barb in all diablo games.
  6. I hate the druid feels very strange to me to play. It is expected that the other classes that they have worked on for years in diablo 3 are more well tuned. But yes I dont like druid at all either.
  7. Its just tier 2 lv 25, irrelevant. I didn’t play high level sorc but I saw quite a few struggling around lv 50-60
  8. see above but I have no idea about later game for necro.

Remember having to play through normal, hard, master until you could reach torment in diablo 3? Yeah now you just need to hit lv 50ish and the true game begins.

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That’s kind of what I was expecting, but I kept hearing they want d4 to be slower paced, and I thought the mobs reflected that but I didn’t really like it. did you get to play the end game beta?

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Yes I did play the end game beta. And there is nothing slow about it, it is much faster then diablo 3 ever can be due to inherent flaws in diablo 3s core design.

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My biggest problem with the game is the density, especially in the open world. My time spent in-game was like:

Kill 3-4 mobs
Walk 3-4 empty screens
Kill 3-4 mobs
Walk 3-4 empty screens

Where’s the action in this ARPG? I got really, really bored really, really quickly. Dungeons and bossfights were, at best, okay, but what’s the point of the open world between dungeons if I’m not killing things? Is it really just to sell me on mtx?

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That’s more info then I could find on it so hopefully that’s how it is. I also heard they turned up the drop rate just for beta. I don’t really care about tt1 and t2 but how was t3 and t4 compared to d3?

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Yeah open world is not dense enough I agree, atleast on tier 2. Cant remember open world density on tier 3-4 really and there were hell spawns on the map which were more chaotic but hard to compare. The game does have the ability to change the open world map easily though. World events are a thing you will see later on. But I think the game will benefit from having a more interesting world map even at lower levels. The game should feel rich even on low levels.

Late game d3 honestly is just a never ending 5% added dmg and hp on every tier isnt it? And while some sets give a fresh way to play the class in diablo 3 and pump you several tiers, in the end it still just an arms race of pushing out another 5% dmg. The mobs in diablo 3 have to much health, the player has to much health, and its a grind late game, keeping the blob in check and just spamming on timers and procs.

d4 end game is totally different. you still need to go in on timers and procs but if you miss you will die. This is not the case in d3 a bad cycle just means you loose dps and you fail the dungeon on the timer. You don’t fail dungeons because of a timer like in d3, you will fail because you die, you have only say 4 deaths allowed in a dungeon (and unlimited time). And you can respec and do everything you want between those tries. Some affixes on sigil dungeons are a pain and you be happy to find a good sigil. You will get stuck in rooms, traps, and there will be hordes of elites spawning over and over. You can’t slow pull, you can control what aggros you. Once in that trap you have nowhere to run or hide and choosing the wrong target to focus your first cycle on means you die. Its extremely unforgiving in late game and the higher you go the more affixes come into the dungeon and the more complex the elite packs become.

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Thats honestly not what I was expecting from d4 but sounds good. I figured they would make the game almost to easy. especially after playing Tier 2. But it sounds like it ramps up quick to the point of you needed to fully gear and upgrade before even entering t3.
How far were you able to make it gearing wise. If you had “perfect” gear you think it would of been fast easy clears, or even with top gear its still tough?

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I got to around level 80+ somewhere so I didn’t even get to see late late game.

I had nowhere close to perfect gear but I felt I had a good build going, my best pieces where under leveled aswell, good rolls and legendary affixes but far from perfect.

I used a hammer on my barb by the way from like lv 40 all the way to lv 60 before it became obsolete. I really like that about diablo IV, some drop can simply be that good. +4 levels in upheaval and +46str does a lot for dmg even at lv 50 :slight_smile: (mm yes level 9 upheaval at lv 40 with +40str, that hit hard). If you get that hammer you will use a build that uses it well… So this game is more about suiting the build for the best pieces you find then finding the pieces for the skills you wanna use (atleast when leveling). Which makes the steep cost of respecing a bit troublesome. I had some serious problems in planning my builds at times simply due to cost / benefit analysis :smiley: I mean there are many places you can spend money to get more out of gear, when leveling it will be a tradeoff constantly assessing where the money makes the most impact, cause you won’t be able to afford every upgrade. But if a weapon is so good it can last for 20levels you can invest in respec and upgrades that suit it. All of this makes diablo IV a game of choices that actually matter and I love it.

I did find a new hellhammer on lv 80ish but it had bad rolls on it so couldnt use it. Yeah drop rate will be lower in main game. You will be lv 100 long before you have close to best in slot.

Perfect gear almost doesn’t exist, for example with hammer of ancients build you want crit chance and overpower dmg. Getting that with the right legendary affixes will be a long grind. Most times you have to use what you get in the best way you can. There will be no perfect gear until you grinded max level for quite some time.

As for gear vs difficulty and clear times. You can always enter lower lv dungeons for more speed or higher level dungeons for more challenge.

this game is good on tier 2 leaves you a bit wanting more. I think the story so far feels a bit empty and meh, atleast its fairly quick to skip through unlike d3. But it gets really good after say level 60 or so when you start pushing other objectives.

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The next level isnt too hard but mobs def gain more abilities and you have to play smarter. Plus more of them in general, by the max tier you really need to think about a particular playstyle you like and work at it, because if you remain all over the place you wont kill mobs, they become hard fast! The 1 shot abilities are real! I found myself wondering wtf just nuked me very often. Overall an enjoyable experience but some hard lessons learned on playstyle and trying to faceroll some mobs.

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As a barb some bosses especially is very hard so I disagree on difficulty increase…if anything maybe barb should be buffed or difficulty reduced…just my opinion…

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Haha I had forgotten about the 4 death fails! Ouch! Walked into a level 20sigil dungeon & those deaths came pretty hard and fast when I wasnt ready for it.

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Yea I got you, that’s why I used the " " in perfect. hopefully it doesn’t get to easy when your all geared out. Like d3 t16 was trivial even with very modest gear since it was all about pushing Grs.
hoping this beta is barebones compared to the actual game. besides testing stuff its been a little boring without any events, limited world boss spawns.

I’m not a huge fan of 1 shots if you can’t learn from it, hopefully avoidable if you pay attention. Like when your clearing something no problem then your dead, go back in and proceed like normal and never really no what happened. like reflect would prolly annoy me endlessly.

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You can avoid it, its all avoidable but aftr playing D3 for so long its a step in a different direction, cant just faceroll stand in crap. Although i never did try maxing out resistance gear so who knows later on…only made it to 96 and it took forever to get that high.

Im hoping the leveling is long enough we hit max level somewhere close to seasons start3 months in.

19

I would be behind the addition of a third tier of standard difficulty between veteran and the next step up… but I think the two difficulties they have are going to be very good for a lot of people, so should absolutely remain in place.

Don’t entirely disagree here. I think more enemies would be good.

This seems like it relates to your initial game difficulty point. If they added another tier of game difficulty, those enemies would have more health and thus your issue would be fixed, would it not?

Multiplayer groups absolutely have scaling implemented. It’s quite aggressive in fact. 2-player party gives about double health, 3-player seems to give around 4 times health. Haven’t tried four.

Haven’t tried either of these, so no thoughts here.

If the game difficulty were increased, would you still feel they were too strong? Hard to say. Is this a class balance issue or another one tied to your ‘the game felt too easy for me’ point.

Cellars SPECIFICALLY need to be adjusted. Right now cellars seem 100% pointless and not worth the loading screen.

Strongholds are very specifically meant to be one-time story things similar to quests, so they can’t be reset.

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I dont know how far upp the curve goes from lv 100 in respect to content that is challenging. I think outside of nightmare dungeons with decent gear clearing the normal map will not be a huge problem if you are properly geared.

It will be a long way there though max level and close to best is slot a very very long way, which makes the way more relevant to consider then the outmost end goal.