In other words, “You made some awesome points and I can’t refute them. Of course, the necromancer in a Diablo game will be a Diablo version of a Necromancer. And whining is a very apt description of what I’m doing.”
So, to that I say. Glad I could help.
A long winded way of basically, saying “The Necromancer in a Diablo game isn’t a Necromancer because it can do other things than raise the dead.”
Okay. Then don’t play it because again, you bought a Diablo game and didn’t expect a Diablo version of the Necromancer. That’s your fault, not the game’s.
Edit:
But to ask a question, what’s a “witch” that CAN raise the dead but also do other “black magic”?
Asking for a friend.
Actually it is the Developers fault (if you really are gonna go there… unnecessarily…) as i posted way earlier a trailer for announcing Necromancer
Unless im looking with 2 left eyes right now, the Trailer quite literally shows SUMMONERS of the Undead where the bone spear at?
where the blood skills at??
Oh wait… duh It’s a Necromancer a Summoner of the UNDEAD, wow why would they have made the trailer showing a Summoner of the UNDEAD damnit if only i should have thought differently yes…
it’s kinda funny really how people here are still debating no the game is not like that ah yes…, so that’s why they made the trailer for necromancer PURELY about Summoning the undead ah okay i got it!
anyway im done discussing this obviously there are some EXTREMELY stubborn people on this platform who just wanna push their own beliefs into it, hopefully a TRUE Necromancer build for the game will get better patches SOON otherwise im never playing Necromancer again or i quit the game, already quit in Season 1 cuz Necromancer is extremely garbage without the most specific right build (a unique item)… thats the only good build for a summoner basically.
Since you didn’t answer the question, let me ask again…
Edit:
And if anyone is “pushing their beliefs” it’s you folks. “The Necromancer can only be one thing and nothing else” isn’t how Necromancer’s are portrayed in any kind of fiction. I mean, let’s look at a popular TV show from a few years ago.
There’s a creature that raises an army of undead but leads a group of other creatures that also create undead. But how do they do it? Oh yeah, they kill them with swords and spears and and what not and then raise their victims as undead.
Now, when those creatures, which are nothing less than a Necromancer want to get rid of a dragon and bring it to their side, how does the leader do it…hmmm. Let me think, oh yeah, he throws a frickin’ spear made of ice but could have also been replaced by one of made of bone.
And there are tons of other examples of this kind of Necromancer in other fiction too. A “mage” of some sort kills someone with some kind of spell or another and then raises that creature as an undead.
But according to you, that’s not a Necromancer because he didn’t just walk in to a graveyard and raise all the dead and then do nothing but direct those undead to kill their enemies.
My point is, your idea of Necromancer isn’t how Necromancers are most often portrayed but if a Necromancer doesn’t fall into your narrow view of what a Necromancer is, then it’s not a Necromancer. That’s means you’re the one that’s being stubborn or even close-minded.
Edit #2:
I love how when I bring examples of what a Necromancer has always been in the Diablo Universe or illustrate how they’ve been portrayed or played in a variety of RPG’s from Table Top to novels to TV shows, you guys then default to “logical fallacy” or “that’s not what a Necromancer is” and return to some dictionary definition or what not.
I mean, fiction isn’t boiled down to a definition on one site or another. The necromancer is clearly someone that CAN raise dead but in that broad definition there’s no definition of how they do it, if they have to kill the creature themselves first or if it just has to be dead or even and this is important, that those undead are then really powerful or not.
I mean, in the games and books and movies I’ve played, read, or watched, when people fight undead, the creatures aren’t very powerful and it’s only sheer weight of numbers that flip things in their favor.
The point is, and the first post and title of this entire thread is “A Cry for Balance” but that’s not what I see in these posts. What I see is, “My Necromancer Summoner feels weak and it’s because these other builds exist. Boil the Necromancer down to just Summoning so that the only option to play a Necromancer is running around with a bunch of weak followers. That’ll fix it.”
Yeah, whatever.
PoE isn’t the authority figure on all things Necromancer. I strongly suspect your viewing Necromancer based on it’s behavior in single title and conflating it with what the class is all about.
Minions don’t show up in that trailer until the end. It begins with the Necro blowing up a wolf using corpse explosion. A random dead guy is reanimated for information then promptly discarded via getting his head lopped off. Bits and pieces of lore are sprinkled throughout the video. At the end the Necro meets more wolf-life creatures, pulls out their weapon and minions enter the picture.
If this was intended to convey Necromancer = Summoner it did a poor job of it. You’d think minions would have a stronger presence throughout the video. Perhaps they even would have lead with it.
There is also a gameplay trailer depicting minions, blood/bone/shadow skills, curses, prison, etc. Everything the class does in-game is in there.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d4/g/blizzard-tracker/activity/posts?category_id=17
Well well well, look what I found from a blue poster, very interesting first sentence. I guess the debate on whether necros are summoners or not is over in regards to d4.
Not quite…
Notice the difference between vengeful and powerful
Edit #2:
And where have you seen anyone argue that they’re not summoners. The argument is They’re not only summoners. Pay attention, skippy.
Sure, let’s conveniently stop reading after the first sentence.
If you preemptively decide what something is about, and lack the ability to budge, it’s a good bet you’re going to find it.
pot calling kettle black lol
/facepalm
tapping out lmao
If you want to summon the undead, play a summon necromancer.
If you’d prefer blasting your enemies with bone, blood, or shadow, play a bone, blood, or shadow necromancer.
If you’d rather engage in a pointless, endless argument about which way to go, sprinkled with plenty of ad hominem nonsense, then there is this thread.
Here’s the thing…
No one has told anyone what build to play, well not with those exact words…
First the argument was “I shouldn’t need Ring of Melden to play a Summoner.” To which I made a case that Summoner’s should have to find items just like every other class and build needs to do.
Then the argument changed to “The Necromancer should only be a Summoner and it shouldn’t need any other abilities and should actually be precluded from any other kind of build.”
To which I pointed out that that’s not what a Necromancer has been in Diablo Series since their inception in Diablo 2. I’ve brought example of Necromancers from all forms of games and media. And yet it’s still, “Yeah, but that’s not what I think a Necromancer should be.”
Then this other guy jumps in, “He’s of course right, the Necromancer is only a summoner.”
I’m sorry, but if they’re not going to bring evidence to back up their claims and then falsely claim that I haven’t brought any, then yeah, I’m gonna attack them.
I have no pity for stupid people especially ones that refuse facts when presented with them.
I really don’t want to continue arguing with you and Mattman is right, it got a bit heated and neither side is willing to see each others perspective.
Anyway for the record, ill say my view on necro based on your view of how this discussion went.
your version of what was said: “I shouldn’t need Ring of Melden to play a Summoner.”
my version: “Ring of Mendeln is a poorly designed ring and actively destroys summoner choices in this game”. See: here
Your version of what was said: “The Necromancer should only be a Summoner and it shouldn’t need any other abilities and should actually be precluded from any other kind of build.”
My version: "The Necromancer is a summoner class first and foremost, it should have the option however to be played as other specs. It should not be the case that minion damage is dwarfed by other spec’s and a ring proc.
Regarding uniques. An acceptable unique would be the ring of mendeln but its damage is based on minion multipliers and ideally but not mandatory be an independent proc that can only be achieved by minions attacking. In other words minion investments in the skill tree, paragon boards, aspects, gear choices should directly empower the unique. currently this is the exact opposite.
Anyways thats my view on the matter.
Your view is more reasonable than Gandalf’s and perhaps I lumped you in with him, and to be clear his view is what I was responding to in almost all my posts in this thread. His view is what I was talking about in the above post. The point is, he has repeatedly said the Summoner should not only be more powerful than other Necromancer builds but that Necromancer’s are Summoners first and foremost and shouldn’t really have any other builds.
Anyway, to clear things up. I’m not against Summoner builds. I’m not completely against Medeln either. Even if it isn’t Medeln the ring, there should be items that necessitate builds. And if the developers have chosen Medeln to be that item, then I’m okay with it. I am against it being in such rarity that you may never find it on your way 100. A build making item shouldn’t be that rare. And I’ve said as much in this thread on numerous other occasions.
So we have a difference of opinion, which is okay but we’re closer to sharing the same opinion than we are apart.
However, I don’t understand why you would take something I said to him and then portray it as “I don’t think Summoners should be powerful.” That’s not what I have been saying.
I’ve only been countering Gandalf’s claim that Necromancers are Summoners and everything else that Diablo gives Necromancer’s isn’t included in his definition of a Necromancer.