Necromancer in Diablo 4: A Cry for Balance

Necromancer
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The Power of Unique Items:
In Diablo 4, unique items are meant to define and elevate your character build, adding depth and variety to gameplay. One such item, the Ring of Mendeln, has taken center stage in the Necromancer’s toolkit. Paired with the Bone Prison aspect, which spawns a pool of blight, this combination transforms the Necromancer into an unstoppable force. But here’s the problem: the Ring of Mendeln is a unique item that only becomes accessible after reaching levels 50-60+ in World Tier 3 or 4. In essence, it becomes a requirement for this build to work effectively.

A Unique Item Should Enhance, Not Define:
Unique items are meant to enhance a character’s abilities, not define them entirely. In the case of the Necromancer, the Ring of Mendeln turns a lackluster class into a powerhouse, but only if you’re lucky enough to find it. This is not how a class should function in a game that prides itself on diversity and character individuality.

Necromancer’s Native Minion Damage:
Let’s not mince words - the base minion damage of the Necromancer is simply horrible. The primary role of a Necromancer should be summoning and commanding an army of the dead with ease, but the game currently falls short in this regard. Without the Ring of Mendeln, the damage output of your minions is lackluster at best. This shouldn’t be the case for a class that’s all about raising the dead.

A Cry for Balance:
It’s high time the developers address this glaring issue. The Necromancer should not be overly reliant on a single unique item to be viable. Unique items should enhance gameplay, not define it.

Let’s be crystal clear: minions are the core essence of the Necromancer class. They define our playstyle, our fantasy, and our enjoyment of the game. Saying that they don’t need a buff is a gross misjudgment. It’s like telling a warrior that their swords shouldn’t be sharp. Minions are our tools, and right now, they’re as dull as spoons.

We, the players, invest our time, passion, and sometimes even money into Diablo 4. We deserve to have a class that’s not just playable but enjoyable without the crutch of a single unique item. It’s high time you recognize that a Necromancer should be powerful, with or without the Ring of Mendeln.

Your community is frustrated, irritated, and frankly, fed up. We’ve voiced our concerns time and time again, but it seems like our pleas have fallen on deaf ears. This isn’t a matter of preference; it’s a matter of balance and fairness.

So here’s our demand, delivered with all the force and irritation we can muster: Buff the minions. Make the Necromancer great again, not just with a unique item but with inherent strength. It’s time to rectify this glaring issue and give us the class we deserve.

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I agree with you, though I would take it a step further, rather then posting it here you can read My post about how Mendeln scales.
A buff to minions would actually directly nerf Mendeln for you if you were to choose more minion paragon, glyphs, skill point and aspects in your build, as usually those choices would be for more generic power gain to strengthen the Mendeln proc output.
However this would not nerf mendeln for those who chose to continue playing pure Mendeln builds. This would simply add to our options and give us a purer and more classical minion experience.
I honestly don’t see what the downsides are, unless the dev philosophy is “minions are only a support spell” which bizarrely is the case… Our real issue is convincing the Dev team that players (at least some) don’t want this, and that their philosophy on minions directly clashes with their general philosophy of “play your way”.

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Thank you for sharing your perspective and suggesting a potential solution to the issue. I appreciate your thoughtful input.

Regarding the developer’s philosophy that “minions are only a support spell,” I understand your strong disagreement. The essence of a Necromancer is deeply rooted in summoning and commanding the undead. They are not mere support; they are the heart and soul of the class. The idea of relegating them to a mere support role seems out of sync with the fundamental identity of the Necromancer.

Let’s be unequivocal about this: a Necromancer’s core identity revolves around summoning and commanding the undead. They are not, by any stretch of the imagination, mere support elements. Minions are the lifeblood of this class, and they should serve as powerful DPS assets, not just auxiliary aids. Without minions, the Necromancer loses its very essence and becomes severely underwhelming.

It’s clear that the community overwhelmingly supports the idea that the Necromancer should be a potent force in its own right, capable of commanding the dead without being heavily reliant on a single unique item. The proposal for more build diversity, particularly a purer minion experience alongside Mendeln-focused builds, appears to be a sensible approach to address these concerns.

Now, our challenge is to convince the development team that Necromancer minions should be more than mere support; they should be a dominant force and a significant source of damage. This aligns perfectly with the broader philosophy of “play your way” and ensures that players can fully embody the fantasy of being a master of the undead. Your contribution to this discussion is crucial, and I hope it aids in driving the necessary changes to elevate the Necromancer class in Diablo 4 to its rightful place.

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World Tier 4. For many people, it’s usually found from levels 80 to mid 90’s and the rare few still haven’t seen it by level 100.

What I’ve come to understand about Unique items is that they are a build in their own right. When we talk about Mendeln, or Blood Artisan’s, we’re not talking about Minion or Bone Spirit builds. We’re talking about Mendeln or Blood Artisan’s builds.

One thing important thing to note is that without fully investing into optimizing your build, the items actually suck on their own. Even the best Mendeln roll is trash if you do not have a Lucky Hit setup at minimum.

The Necromancer is not a lackluster class by any stretch. It is one of the best classes in the game.

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I appreciate your perspective, but I must strongly disagree with the assertion that the Necromancer is currently one of the best classes in the game. While it’s true that some Necromancer builds can be potent, particularly those leaning on the Ring of Mendeln, we need to take a broader view.

The crux of the matter is that many of us believe the Necromancer should excel at summoning and controlling the undead – that’s what defines this class. However, the heavy reliance on a single unique item, such as the Ring of Mendeln, to make the class viable as a summoner is nothing short of problematic. A class should have a variety of viable builds, not be cornered into a situation where it’s practically begging for a specific item to function properly.

Our frustration stems from the fact that the Necromancer’s build diversity is currently lacking. While it’s true that formidable builds exist, it’s deeply disheartening that summoner-style builds, devoid of the Ring of Mendeln, struggle to keep pace. This imbalance restricts the class’s potential and stifles our creativity.

To be blunt, the Necromancer might have strengths in particular setups, but its overall class balance – especially in relation to summoner-style builds – leaves much to be desired. This situation calls for immediate adjustments to provide us, the players, with a more diverse and satisfying experience within the class.

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Just because Minion builds are not working right now does not mean we are not one of the best classes in the game. So let’s get that perfectly clear. Bone Spear absolutely demolishes every thing in the game. Shadowblight builds hit for 10’s to 100’s of millions of damage. Blood Lance and Surge can clear T100 with the least investment and most efficiency out of any spec in the ENTIRE GAME.

You need to enlarge your perspective from just minions to the broad overall bigger picture of what’s available to the Necromancer. Our specs absolutely destroy and in such a way that other classes can’t even compare.

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Listen, it’s high time we cut through the clutter and get back to the basics. Necromancers are what they are – summoners of the dead. This is not a matter of opinion; it’s a fundamental fact deeply rooted in the class’s lore and identity.

The frustration in the community arises because the Necromancer, as it currently stands, falls short of this core concept. It’s not about dismissing the existence of other viable builds; it’s about the fact that the class’s primary role, summoning and commanding the undead, is severely underpowered.

We’re not just asking for improvements; we’re demanding that the developers align the Necromancer class with its true essence. A Necromancer should excel in raising skeletal armies, controlling legions of undead, and being an unstoppable force of darkness. The fact that we’re even having this discussion shows how far the class has strayed from its roots.

So, let’s be clear – the Necromancer’s primary identity is that of a summoner of the dead, and anything less is a disservice to the class and its players. It’s time for the developers to recognize this and bring the Necromancer back to its rightful place at the top of the undead hierarchy.

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Which is why I haven’t disagreed with anything you said regarding Minions. I wholeheartedly agree. I’m just saying that Necromancer is NOT a lacklustre class and we actually are one of the best in the entire game. That part of it is FACT. It’s uncontestable. There’s no other class that can just press R1 and delete everything off of the entire screen. Get your head out of the sand.

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My 2cents
a) Necro class is fine (meaning its not most player neither least played) - flavor of the month is rogue with druid as a runner up. Btw video with druid doing NM100 in <60s … very impressive
b) entire concept for D4 (not just necro) revolve around builds that are based on unique items (look for druid and rogue) its game mechanic
c) You don’t need uncommon unique to get past mid-game - seriously any necro meta - bone spear, shadow variation or blood variation are capable get to level 100 w/o any problem and capable of doing NM60 w/o any problem
d) last but not least - in D4 pets for necro meant to be replicators or/and retranslators of damage (think about deathspeaker pendat or razor tail mail). I tell you more if you look on latest development of bone spear built move toward bone spears + pets start dominate over ditching pets.

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Listen up, because it’s time to set the record straight. I strongly disagree with your take on the current state of the Necromancer class in Diablo 4, and I’m not holding back here.

First and foremost, claiming that the Necromancer class is fine as it is simply doesn’t align with the glaring issues we’ve been facing. We’re not looking for flavor-of-the-month classes; we’re demanding that the Necromancer, a class that is inherently built around summoning the undead, lives up to its thematic core. The fact that it’s not the most or least played class doesn’t excuse the shortcomings in its design.

Your point about unique items being a game mechanic is valid to some extent, but it doesn’t justify the excessive dependency on a single unique item like the Ring of Mendeln. A class should not be beholden to a specific item to be viable.

As for your argument that meta builds like Bone Spear, Shadow, or Blood variations can get you through the game, sure, they can. But that’s not the point. The point is that a Necromancer, by definition, should be about summoning the undead. We shouldn’t have to settle for a “capable” build; we should be dominating with our hordes of minions.

Lastly, your assertion that pets for Necromancers are meant to be replicators or translators of damage is missing the essence of the class. They’re not just sidekicks; they’re the heart and soul of the Necromancer. If the latest developments are moving towards bone spears dominating with pets, that’s what we’ve been advocating for all along – a Necromancer that truly embraces its identity as a summoner of the dead.

In summary, it’s time for the community to wake up and stop settling for subpar interpretations of the Necromancer class. We demand a class that embraces its core essence as a summoner of the undead, not just a sidekick to some “meta” build. It’s high time for a change, and we won’t be silenced until our demands are met.

I’ve had it up to here with people constantly spouting off about all these other builds for the Necromancer and claiming that it’s in a “GOOD STATE.” Are you kidding me?

Let me make this abundantly clear: a NECROMANCER is about summoning the undead, not shooting spears or whatever else these so-called “meta” builds are. We’re talking about the class that’s supposed to command legions of the dead, raise skeletal armies, and strike fear into the hearts of our enemies. It’s right there in the name – NECRO-MANCER.

So, don’t come at me with your fancy Bone Spears, Shadows, or whatever flavor of the month build you’ve got. The Necromancer’s primary identity is summoning the freaking undead, and until it does that job right, all these other discussions are just noise. It’s time for the developers to wake up and give us the class we signed up for – a true master of the undead.

Even the freaking Blizzard daiblo4 necromancer trailer is about SUMMONING THE UNDEAD!!!, see them shooting a bonespear? i DON’T THINK SO!!

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It kind of is an opinion. Yes, reviving dead things to do your bidding is an element to a Necromancer. It’s not the only element to the class. This comment is presenting an opinion as objective truth so the opinion appears more compelling. It’s disingenuous.

It’s also completely unnecessary. If you think it should be possible to lean more heavily into Minions you can just say so. It’s a valid desire. I agree with it 100%. The class should be able to focus on summoning a small army of dead things to carry the load, so to speak. This opinion does not need to be backed by objective fact. It can be subjective. It’s still valid if it’s subjective.

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Lets separate 2 things - your opinion and real state of the subject?
First and foremost - necro is NOT summoner class. Necromancer (in any RPG genre games) first and foremost class that using “death” magic and DOT type of damage. Raising dead is merely one of the features and not mandatory btw., raising minions more fit “witch doctor” class. SKULM shown many times amazing video where his pet necro evaporating Lilith under 54second - does pets require to deliver that type of damage? sure they are … are they “source” of the damage … sort of but more like replicators and retranslators. Therefore your entire point mute.
State of the class easy to judge by popularity. Lets face it - most played class now is rogue, follow up by druid and than necro with barbarian/sorc are least played classes now

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Enough with the “it’s just your opinion” rhetoric; let’s back this up with some hard facts:

1. Wikipedia: If you take a moment to look up “Necromancer” on Wikipedia, you’ll find a clear definition: a practitioner of necromancy, which involves communicating with or raising the dead. This is a widely accepted definition and goes beyond mere opinion.

2. Diablo Franchise: The Necromancer class in the Diablo franchise has always revolved around raising and controlling the undead. This isn’t just my opinion; it’s a well-established fact within the game’s lore and mechanics. Check any Diablo game or lore resource, and you’ll see that the Necromancer is consistently portrayed as a master of the undead.

3. Fantasy Genre: Beyond Diablo, the concept of the Necromancer as a summoner of the dead is a staple in the fantasy genre itself. From classic literature to tabletop role-playing games like Dungeons & Dragons, the Necromancer archetype is synonymous with commanding legions of undead creatures.

4. Literary References: Look to classic literature, and you’ll find countless examples of Necromancers portrayed as individuals with the power to raise and control the dead. From works like H.P. Lovecraft’s “The Case of Charles Dexter Ward” to J.R.R. Tolkien’s portrayal of the Necromancer in “The Hobbit,” the summoning of the dead is a recurring theme.

5. Pop Culture: Beyond gaming and literature, pop culture references reinforce the idea of the Necromancer as a summoner of the undead. Movies like “The Mummy” and “Army of Darkness” depict characters with Necromancer-like abilities as those who wield power over the dead.

In light of these comparisons, it’s evident that the Necromancer class has a unique and consistent role in summoning and controlling the undead. This isn’t a matter of personal preference; it’s an established archetype deeply embedded in gaming, literature, and popular culture. It’s high time we honor this legacy and restore the Necromancer to its rightful place as the master of the undead.

So, let’s put to rest the notion that this is a matter of opinion. The Necromancer’s identity as a summoner of the undead is a widely recognized and established fact, both within the Diablo franchise and the broader fantasy genre. It’s time to get back to basics and ensure that the class lives up to its core identity.

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It’s not that Blizzard doesn’t want to make minions viable, it’s just that they’re technically incapable of doing it as evidenced by the Mendeln stopgap. They simply don’t have the talent to make it happen so they haven’t tried yet.

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OP is unhinged. Nobody is disagreeing with him that Minions need to be buffed but he goes off attacking and dismissing everybody. It’s better to stop responding. We have tons of ‘buff minions’ topics anyways. None of them offer any actual meaningful feedback.

Very very very early on, I posted EXACTLY about these points. It’s not that they don’t have the talent, it’s that they designed a system where minions do not fit in with the overall framework. It does up to a certain point but then it breaks.

There’s nothing that you or the devs can do because it’s fundamentally broken. Minions do not have, or have very few special abilities. That means that the vast bulk of what minions do is auto attack. There are very few minion skills or abilities that have better than base weapon dmg and multipliers are basically non-existent. The multipliers that do work come from the Necro itself and not necessarily the minions. And finally, we have that 30% cap which also clamps down on minion dmg.

The item, Ring of Mendeln, does offer a bandaid in which it’s effect is custom tailored to make the minion do damage that it’s not normally able to, and because it works off of the Necro, it’s able to be scaled into respectable damage in a way that’s just not possible without it.

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The point is involving oneself with summoning or resurrecting the dead isn’t the only aspect of a Necromancer. They can also pass out curses, cause disease, manipulate or speak to spirits, drain or steal “life force”, make corpses explode, litter the ground with blight pools, and on and on it goes.

The term coming to mind is Dark Sorcerer or Wizard. Keeping in mind Sorcerer and Wizard are generic terms indicating use of “magic”. Necromancer in this context boils down to death, poison, and disease magic, curses, etc.

I’ve yet to play a game with a Necromancer class where it didn’t involve some or all of the above. Some or all of the above, and more, is the class identity. Summon dead things is not. Summon dead things is one single component of that identity.

I’d even take this a step further and say a Necromancer boxed into summoning dead things and nothing else is a horrible concept. It’s too narrow and has very little flexibility. Classes have traditionally been a general area of focus. Not a narrow specialty.

And again, you’ve just spent a great deal of time and effort to insist a Necromancer is a “Summoner”. The class doesn’t need to be boxed into this corner to justify adjustment to Minions. Just say Minions should be better. That’s all you need to say. Most players would likely be on board with making Minions better.

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I don’t think the OP is unhinged, I think he’s pissed off. The reality in D4 is minions are a support to bone, darkness and blood and the only viable version of minions not being support is… in fact them being support to a damn Unique ring LMAO.
My opinion “he’s F-bleeeping right!”
I honestly don’t blame him for being… how can i put this delicately? “a bit full on” :smiley:

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Thankyou… just… thankyou. :raised_hands:
It’s been multiple patches (including balancing patches) and 0% has been done about any kind of DPS related or Balancing related stuff to minions outside of resistance :woman_facepalming:

It’s pathetic that a company that had over 8000 developer work on Diablo 4 with over 6years in development can’t fix this…

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I don’t think he is saying Necros are not multifaceted he is saying minions are at the absolute core of them.
Right now in d4 minions are literally a support act to everything else.
At least that’s my take on what the OP is saying.

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Indeed correct…,

It’s important to emphasize that the core identity of a Necromancer lies in their ability to summon and command the undead.

While abilities like Corpse Explosion have their place, they should complement, not overshadow, the Necromancer’s primary role as a summoner of the dead. This distinction is fundamental to the class and shouldn’t be overlooked or underestimated.

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