Maybe found a issue with physical with damage tag on barb?

Barbarian
1

So looking at the stats I have noticed something damage with Physical, 10% super low stat in my stats, now this also reads as Direct physical and Bleed Dot.

Now when I equip Overkill that has 500% to this stat, my in town, attk power goes from 13k to 21k.

Eliminated this as the only stat not already covered ok.

Now when i say alright, well DB is not in my build so how do i invest in this stat i see a problem

As the only temper is physical over time, when does nothing to this direct physical stat.

So looked at board, another problem, they nerfed the crap out of them, brawn used to be a source, not anymore, not from magic nodes, not from rare nodes.

I don’t have enough gold to now check the other board nodes, but non of my five have magic nodes to invest in this stat, which is a problem, since whatever board does if so, makes that board mandatory lol

I am sure there is other issues, so now i have to rework everything, to fit back in knowing i need to waste a slot on Overkill in my hammer slot lol.

So while this won’t be a problem for other builds, I think this is partly to do with why Bleed WW is struggling and similar builds,

I could be wrong, and I get that attk power is a broken metric, but it still has some relative measure, as at 12k compared to now 27k in town, pit 59 feels like i got somewhere, however this eats a 2H SLOT and aspect, so I need gold now to rework my gear gems to MS to make up for this, to have any chance of clearing it. and will have to make up that 2H aspect multiplier on ST to see if that helps.

Imo the board nerfs are overkill, and stat squishing not only has proven to be done wrong and completely missed a stat, but it’s much harder to gear and customize.

Yes games in “good shape” ok, sure. If you pay to when and play SB, lol.

I know people make mistakes, but this feels like you a ruining the game tbh. :man_shrugging:

Edit- Enhanced WW, could also use a buff, imo, the single target fury gain, feels low. which makes WW upkeep great against mobs but dies against single target.

There is something wrong, even if this is not the full picture. Also felt immediately weaker after the mid-season patch, so something broke or was over nerfed. :+1:

2

Blizzard change physical damage paragon nodes to just +damage. It’s a good change since blizzard somehow made more aspect power deal non physical.

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Yeah but its not when you have a unsalable state, 13k to 27k just switching one stat that is only on this hammer, cant see the problem? sure builds that don’t need this stat are fine, bleed and direct physical is broken imo.

But sure, people are not getting stuck with WW barb. :+1: do you even see the mess in the stats tab lol

If i could video it you would see, but equip Overkill and watch you attk power jump. something is wrong. doesn’t even need to be good, any overkill versus my MW ga hammer is night and day to this stat which effects bleed and direct damage.

With out Overkill this stat is 10%, unless i take the 3 magic nodes that now exist. no temper for it either. everything else has over 100% invested, hemorrhage is capped, with vuln. etc, its the only one. and it makes a difference. but obviously i loose the aspect and deathblow investment that doesn’t fit the build.

There is nothing left to invest in…

Yes elemental dmg on barb is improved, so what , doesn’t fix the broken bleed WW. lol

Edit- I must be crazy but trust me, physical damage, is the only stat on overkill Unique hammer i don’t have, and the jump in attack power is significant enough to show a problem. Otherwise the tags don’t make sense and it should be removed, and why have 20% increase around one board node lol. It’s 500% on the hammer. So despite loosing my GA hammer affix’s at almost full MW, and the multiplicative aspect , 13k-27k is massive. and the monster HB reflects this issue.

Even more interesting is the fact that T2 is a faceroll, but T3 and 55-59 pits, the bleed is nothing, they basically don’t bleed enough if they are not trash mob. :man_shrugging:

The tag mentions it’s effected on bleed, so it must relate to it.

Only way to make this stronger now, is to take twisters, but the whole point of the build was to not be a twister barb lol.

Sure i can push a little muiplicative skill here or there in the ST and sacrifice defense, but it wont do that much, not enough compared to taking twister.

4

Don’t use ‘attack power’ as a metric. It’s very volatile. Use the damage you see on screen instead. Unless you can get a +damage to 500% on the generic hammer, Overkill is going to push out higher damage. This is the reason why Grandfather is BiS for 2h sword. It can reach +600% damage easily on top of the crit damage.

1 Like
5

yes i no. but it still highlights a stat problem which is all i was using it for, and it corellates to increased damage, despite the loss of everything else, which point to the stat being busted imo. I don’t use attack power as a metric, i used it to pin point a stat or tag issue.

I then went into the stats tab and ah ha, physical dmg, 10%. hover over it, ahh it’s tied to bleed in some weird way. then i noticed that Overkill has this missing stat, i tried tempering nope that is physical dmg over time, and does not effect this physical dmg stat at all. not in the attk power in the tags tab.

all the attk pow ever showed me was boosting this tabs stat with the hammer from 10 ot 500% made a huge difference. and was like the missing piece otherwise blocking the build from progressing not matter what I do upgrade.

All my other buckets are being good enough or massively filled due to the beefed unique stats so those are fine. only barb has this issue and this weird physical dmg tag that other classes dont have.
It has all dmg as well, heck i have % in poison dmg somehow lol.

I am just reporting what i am seeing, the best i can, a video would be easier but i cant be bothered.

Idk care what the stat reaches i am saying there is no other bit of kit ot temper that allows me to use this tag which is needed imo, to help the build, without Overkill in the slot, Since It is not needed in the build, Since in dont use DB.

So how does that work, then I remembered boards had this stat and again went ah ha, only to find its gone basically everywhere but a dribble here and there lol.

If this isn’t the missing piece, idkwtf this tag is used for then becasue nothing else taps into it, if i was using HH or or aspect GA hammer in the slot.

So in that case, bleed and WW without Twister needs looking at, why would a bleed WW not work? it has a choice node for bleed for one, and two, with enhanced WW has the chance to fully replace a basic skill and self fuel, making use of massive CD reduction, beserker spam, of the ultimate, and MT/R WM skills creates a beautiful rotation, with great fury regen. sure I could swap Rupture and Crimson, for something else, but that isn’t the build.

IT is bleed WW using rupture, makes sense that it should be a viable build the rotation works, the synergy is there, the damage, nope, can’t dot for crap in 59pits, it just dies out and there is no other stat, adding more X at this point doesn’t help with the bleeds, but equip this hammer did. so something about this tag is related to bleeds, It even says it on the hover description.

We are not on the same page. Try it out, i am telling you its weird.

6

It is extremely difficult to follow what you are saying.

If you are talking about interactions of Physical Damage % and Physical Damage over Time %, it is complicated for WW. The same holds true for when you use Berserk Ripping to convert damage to Bleeding Damage. Theoretically, they should double-dip with the DD portion being boosted by Physical Damage % and your Bleed being boosted by both additive values but this isn’t always the case. There used to be an infinite loop which Rob exposed in like Season 1 or something where it infinitely scaled. In Blizzard’s quest to fix it, they broke a bunch of stuff also.

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I am saying int in the stats tab, there is a stat called Physical damage.

I am fully ancestral and unique, and 222 board pints, 5 glyph leg, so when i noticed this wierd reaction to Overkill in the slot when i was playing around, I decided to look into this, and all I could find was that physical damage in the tab, was 10% with no increase from anything when you read it is says I will post in a edit what it say, something to do with bleed.
I have a full MW Crimson GA so i am good on the bleed stats, vuln on hem is capped.

This was the only stat that was on the floor. and there is no temper or enchant for it, boards used to have it, like i said most of it is gone. I found like 2 or 3 nodes on 1 board i had.

It used to have this on the starter board, and to progress on the board you always, picked up a few, probably by design, to make sure casuals tap into the tag.

So yeah Overkill has this affix and significantly adds to it, run the same t3 pit, and in theory getting rid of my build specific GA hammer, with a aspect and ranks to cut to the bones, would weaken my bleeds, but in fact, i was able to do more bleed damage as seen on the HB, but overall it does not fix it, and its’s still super weak and slow for level 59 pit.

If you cannot follow, oh well, just put overkill in you build, watch the atkk power go up alot, and look at its impact on the tag. just a generic OK will do, doesn’t even need to be ancestral.

I don’t have every unique gear, but so far this is the only piece of kit that has it.

Anyway I can tell there is a issue, I will respec it to UH HH, but likely i need to twister WW or piss it off and spec into something not bleeding and not WW. :man_shrugging:

Other than that, the boards stat squish is boring as hell, ngl. at this point i am waiting for them to legacy boards bring in runes from D3 and sets and call it done.

Edit- So it is Damage with Physical it is called, you know like yoda would phrase it.

and it says includes both direct physical damage and bleeding over time

So damage over time GA affix, effects the damage with bleed tag, not the former.

Damage with physical is its own right, I actually found it on a GA butchers clever also, so even with that and OK, puts me at over 700% so do I cannot use other ga items, then? since the difference just on a hammer and axe is 13k or 23k, yes the number doesn’t mathematically mean anything, but bigger does mean more damage. I mean look at 1k versus 13k

So that means now board gives me 20% i need to find GA physical damage, does it even roll on non Unique? so do you not see the issue here. lol i do .

So would have been a easy fix or non issue with the way boards used to be. It didn’t squish this into all damage otherwise this tag would have more invested in it, it has simply gone. Making physical damage affix mandatory, and perhaps that is the intention? idk. perhaps but it;s going to take rng blessings to find it.

Thats all i got to say about it, idc anymore, wasste of time. but there you go, there may be some broken crap there.

8

Physical Damage is just an additive bucket. It affects all damage with the only condition being it is not Elemental, so no Fire, Poison, Shadow, Frost, or Lightning. This is most damage for Barbarians.

The stat sheet is notorious for not being accurate. It also depends on if you are in Town or not when you look at your stat sheet.

Attack Power is a horrible indicator of actual Damage potential. Builds that show a lower AP can perform far better than ones that do not. There absolutely no reason to pay attention to it.

Some things do not show in your Stat Sheet at all, these are conditionals based on effects such as Crit Chance to Bleeding enemies etc.

It sounds like you are trying to make a WW Bleed build, which sucks. WW Bleed is probably the worst Bleed type since WW Base Damage is so incredibly low. Even putting Berserk Ripping on 2H Bludgeoning and Grandfather, it is going to lag behind all other Bleed builds (which are pretty bad this Season to begin with).

The only WW that is remotely viable is WW DD/EQ, and even then, you will need all BiS Mythic and GAs just for it to be able to perform in T4.

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Cool, I know all this. Physical with damage, effects bleed, Yes it sucks, and its a broken additive bucket, play with zero additive buckets, and see how far you get, I can stack X buckets they are all being hit anyway, and bleed doesn’t crit…
If it was working it would help the build like all the other buckets that are all hitting. just not with bleed apparently.
Agree woosh the point went past your head, please just leave it be. If you don’t get me that is fine. I told you how to see the problem, well part of it. Yes it may be bad, indictor’s or real damage output numbers, but they to show when points are invested, so where else to you go to check things when the build hits a wall, I guess in D4 , you call it done and realise the game for no reason at all, says you go no further even thought the gear and paragon have headroom and glyphs and 46. I mean… I can grind all the incremental upgrades and see, but There should be this much push back against the build sub T4, makes no sense. Unleash things are broken. So yeah makes no sense at all , just like physical with damage.

Game also does a crap job explaining anything at all, and no of the 3rd party stuff gets ww bleed to work so, yeh there is a problem right. right. I guess main class can wait until 2025 to be playable lol only been waiting to play a bleed build since launch…

Anyway, i am done talking about it, the devs probably already know the problems and just stalling on fixing it, because this game is stupid.

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If you’re talking about +physical damage have little impact to damage output, it’s been known since Season 4 when blizzard introduced Loot Reborn. The PTR was fine. Once Season 4 started, putting on +physical damage was worse than +damage. Even though they should go into the same damage bucket. The coefficient for +physical was low. This was test by using the same item on a Rogue then calculate the tooltip damage increase. Rogue somehow has a higher boost in damage with the +physical affix compare to Barbarian. Because of season 6 changes, classes can’t equip the same item anymore so it’s harder to test.

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He doesn’t understand how damage or attack power work, and refuses to listen to anyone.

Don’t waste your time, boys. He wants to “figure it out” and tell us how it works.

12

Trying to read his incoherent babble is more painful than Tempering a GAIII.

2 Likes
14

Your walls of text, mispellings, grammatical errors, completely incoherent sentences makes following what you are attemping to communicate very challenging.

There is a lot of “stuff” there but it is unclear what your actual complaint is.

You do realize that Whirlwind is not APPLYING a Bleed right? It is CONVERTING Direct Damage to Damage Over Time. Your investment into DoT and trying to build it like Rend or Flay appears to be the problem.

When Bash Cleave was Meta, the goal was to increase Bash’s Direct Damage as much as possible since Berserk Ripping was converting that to Damage Over Time.

Are you trying to say something is specifically wrong with Whirlwind Bleed? Of course it is. This is nothing new. Whirlwind has awful Base Damage. Why are you even using Fields of Crimson? That Unique is garbage.

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There is no complaint, there has been mention of WW and bleed weakness yes? yes, hence the title Maybe found the issue, Maybe, not a complaint trying to help solve the barb weakness and game enjoyment. Comprehend.

Second, you are a insulting gaslighting narc of a person and will be blocked, as you have a bruised ego and take it out on me.

Third you do realise, a better game, and solving issues like Attk power metric goes beyond you and meta guide bottle drinkers, I would say more than half of D4’s community could care less, and are killing monsters on the console with friends and family.

So when you make a product , you want it to function with in itself, This is the view point and perspective i am also including in my discussion. One becasue i am that kind of player, so does that make you feel bad, I got to T3 using only the game, no guide or calculator? because that is how the game should function, when you are not a min maxing minority.

Again ruling out the points, crimson shouldn’t be garbage, it is meant to make the rupture skill fun. It also gives you massive bleed related affix’s so why would i not want that to be the case for a bleed build, lol. You think in a box and what is meta. Which is nothing to do with anything i am saying.

Again your triggerd ego is getting in the way.

I was exploring what the game was doing and why it was stuck when it comes to bleeding dmg, WW or otherwise, all my buckets are full so i can do whatever tbh.

I am saying the Physical with damage tag for the tenth time imo is behaving weird imo.

Can you build up down and around these things, yeh ofc. Still I felt it was worth mentioning since as a user of a product and not a elitist hero.

You are further blocked, as you are toxic and twist my words for your own and others entertainment likely.

Anyone with half and brain cell and that can read and works on D4 will know what to look at, and it may or may not be a issue, there was no claim or absolutes in this discussion or complaints.

The fact you are triggered by “walls” of text says alot, don’t read it, i didn’t ask you too, not everything is for you, only in you head becasue you are a Narc. GET help,I wish you luck and leave me alone.

You enjoy making a battle out of D4 knowledge and that was never the intention. This is not a complaint post.

I am simply pointing out things as a user of the busted product that are frustrating and might be the cause of less enjoyment.

I don’t want to enjoy D4 not using a Unique that makes rupture do nothing, that would be like saying enjoy twister barbs with no twisters (reverse the ability and apply it to a unique weapon versus aspect.)

I doubt you will even comprehend half of this, maybe try D3 its more casual and minmaxer friendly.

Enjoy my wall of text everything that needed to be said , against not a complaint, was said at the beginning. I am done here, they can look into it and fix or not fix this game.

Because once again this wasn’t a mechanics semantics argument, you made it that. for whatever reason. Like you always have when i discuss D4. get help :man_shrugging: there is no need to be the way you are your trolls are about a game.

I am not saying i am right hence the word maybe, and i am not complaining. I actually want Crimson rupture WW to be viable since the rotation and CD synergy in the playability of the build is very fun, and NOT boring for the sake of being Meta.

That is the other difference, I want to play intended builds, that have all the Intended function and effects like blood pools on a bleed build, woooah go figure, not sit smug on a rug because my math got me a T4 clear in a boring build.

TLDR- Enjoy my wall of text :smiley:
-Not a complaint, a maybe there is something odd or not working correctly or as intended with the Damage with physical tag, which maybe is limiting its output. that is all.

Look up Maybe in the dictionary and get help with your passive aggressive response and combative discussion becasue you think you are better than the rest.

We all play the game and have the right to express our views and opinions, and i never said i was right or asked for help. I was more to do with the product and what i deem as a casual user a fault. Since the game should function as a game, within itself. not rely on third party gossip and work arounds, that would not be a functional and viable game.

Cleared 55 pit with crimson, so when you can do that with rupture.ww and crimson let me know and we can talk, also using WW to replace a basic skill slot :wink:

Oh crimson might very well be trash for dmg numbers and T4, however the game is more fun with you know bleeding effects…so why would you know since launch i not actually want a blood pooling barb that doesn’t rely on mythic or skill work arounds.

Oh and btw, for you and your trolls, if i was trying to tell people how to play, i wouldn’t do it here in a post like this, I would be a clown without makeup on YT, full of myself telling others how to play diablo and other things. :man_shrugging: If i was going to do that i would atleast do it right and go all in.

Edit- and on another note where you are wrong is that this wasn’t a meta or Bis discussion. You made it one. This was about the text and function and game behaviour of the tag physical with damage (yoda speak) you must. And exploring it’s function on bleed as it reads in game, regardless of true or not I buy a car i don’t want it to say with air bags only to find out that was just text…

Wasn’t even saying I had all the right stats or gear, I am ssf and already put in more hours than i should, so finding the right gear with current gold sinks is a choir for a seasonal game.

Edit 02

Fun builds is what i am testing, and while having a DB/R Bleed is great, if this stat is hard to come by with out it, there Maybe a issue there, since it and Butchers clever is all i have come across with it so far. Not complaining sitting in T3 with the build, I am not a meta snob, i care less You do you and minmax and calculate idc, i have no beef with that.

I want the game to work and be functional for all, and prove haters wrong, like the clowns that say D4 is only resource spender, by making builds that use no basic skills and take more thought in to how to do that. but that is not the topic i am speaking of here.

Don’t you want players to be able to use DB and Rupture? and have cool effects for a barb that isn’t barb sorc twister? seems others myself included do :wink:

You attack my grammar, yet even the game you are soon keen to rescue from nothing , has bad grammar.

I will take a guess, and say you must be one of these 3rd party nesters, that is trying to spoon feed players to meta sites for money over fun. :wink:

You see it’s all good to be first and clear the game, however it’s ignoring the builds that are fun, and doesn’t help fix them , by simply saying Crimson and Overkill are garbage.

using them making funs builds and testing for gaps, holes and problems, means ego comes second and people get the barb fantasy they actually want to play for those not into twister barb. :+1: that is all.
Sadly the trend is copying who did it first and ruling everything else out as garbage or the games fault…

16

Since no one seems to be helping you here, try asking on the general board.

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Wow man. You just typed a novel of rants that were all over the place. Perhaps not attacking people when they ask for clarification on what exactly you are trying to say would be helpful.

  • On one hand, you are complaining that Fields of Crimson is not that great and you are capping out in T3 and Pit 55.
  • Then you try to flex you completed Pit 55 with Fields of Crimson equipped.
  • Then you get upset when I said Fields of Crimson is a garbage Unique item.
  • You make a vague comment about Deathblow and Rend Bleed build (which does not even exist)
  • Now you are labeling people as “min/maxers” who are trying to help you with your build.

Do a little research on my posts about how Fields of Crimson needs to be fixed and also how a Whirlwind Bleed build could be made viable.

Fields of Crimson’s Blood Pool X Damage does not scale very well and needs to be increased exponentially. The Multiplicative Damage the Pools provide need to be either increased or replaced with the S2 Bathe in Blood, Blood Power. Additionally, Rupture should never remove Bleeding effects.

18

If you add 500% of any relevant stat would make a huge difference. It has nothing to do with +phys. If you were to add 500% dmg (as in granfather) it would boost you the same as 500% phys dmg.

Here’s where your confused. There are no buckets anymore. Every single stat that does not have a (x) tag is additive with all other stats. So, 500% physical dmg increases your dmg the exact same as 500% dmg from grandfather.

19

This is not exactly true.

  • 500% Damage applies to All Damage inflicted, Physical and Elemental
  • 500% Physical Damage applies to only Physical Damage.

Generally however Damage % rolls lower than other Additive Sources as a result.

Then you have other Additive Buckets like:

  • Vulnerable Damage
  • Damage While Berserking
  • Damage to Stunned or Crowd Controlled Enemies
  • Damage to Bleeding Enemies
  • Critical Strike Damage
  • Damage to Close
  • Overpower Damage

These are all Conditional Buckets and only provide their values when the Conditions are met. As a result however, Blizzard has given some of these sources an ability for a portion of it to be Multiplicative (Blood Rage and Hemmhorage) or through Passive Skills or Glyphs.

Grandfather is especially interesting because it modifies the Critical Strike coefficient which effectively doubles the value of Critical Strike Damage as an Additive Bucket.

20

Allow me to rephrase. Though I think what I was saying should have been obvious enough to not warrant a rephrase …

Given any physical attack, adding a 500%(+) physical damage will be the equivalent of adding 500%(+) all damage. Therefore “buckets” do not exist in any tangible way other than meeting conditions. i.e. All damage, that isn’t notated as %(x), is additive and in the same “bucket”.

This also includes the initial 50% for critical strikes as well as the initial 20% for vuln.

But all of these buckets (outside of the indicated %(x) portion that is specified like in the case of crit strike dmg) are additive together. It is 1 big additive bucket that varies in value depending on conditions being met. So given a relevant attack and relevant additive stat it doesn’t matter which stat you add. They all apply equally.

The whole point is that you are trying to point out that adding 500% phys dmg boosted your attack power significantly and that you see that as being abnormal. What I am saying is that adding 500% of any relevant additive stat will boost it in the same way. It doesn’t matter what “bucket” it is in.

21

I agree with you and was just clarifying. I am not the OP with their weird arguments on Attack Power and “buckets”. Pretty sure they blocked me actually for pointing out exactly what you just did.

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