You have to find a legendary or unique item, apply both of the tempers to it (legendary), grind for matts to open the pit, grind the pits for the masterworking… and then it FAILS and you have to farm the matts again…
What kind of ridiculous nonsense is that? There is no good reason to have a ‘success chance’ on something that we have to grind for that has RNG.
This makes no sense. It’s literally multiple layers of RNG, blocked by a failure (or multiple as is in my case).
In PTR this isn’t a big deal, free level 100 character etc… but if you spend the best part of a week levelling up your toon to 100, farming all the matts you need, and then you get a string of failures during masterworking - what do you think the chances that you’ll continue playing the season are? I’m pretty sure it’s going to be between zero and none.
Either make masterworking free with a high chance of failure or allow us to farm for the matts and make it a guaranteed update.
Diablo IV is ridiculously easy game and is based on level-scaling. You are made to be “winner” since level 1. The failing is actually a good part where you immortal amazing character in demon-populated universe for a first time feel “real”.
Sometimes things don’t work as expected. It is us to decide what to do with it and how to move one. And this decisions makes us who we are. So decision must be made “grind it again” or “leave it”. Do you have what it takes to go through obstacles? What if there are many obstacles? Are you prepared?
I hope you’ve followed my thought. Now it becomes a player-growth game, something greater than pushing-up a number on your imaginary character.
So, grinding pits for 10-20-30 minutes, however long it takes for a string of upgrades, and then having some, if not all of them fail, resulting on you getting literally nothing from your time spent is a good thing?
If masterworking wasn’t gated behind a number of layers of RNG, or you got at least some of your materials back, and you could choose ‘what’ you wanted to masterwork, then having a failure would make sense.
But this is literally just an ‘upgrade this item’ for x amount. It’s not even though you’re doing it yourself, you’re asking the blacksmith to do it.
Would you expect to go and pay someone for services in the real world (since you’re trying to compare it to reality), have them take all your stuff, and then afterwards say “sorry, it failed, I can try again if you pay me again”…
This is a huge topic over on the PTR forum with a lot of points of view. I personally like the idea of adding a system where if you fail, your chance for the next time goes up a bit.
As a solo player who doesn’t use real money to buy stuff in the game, I would have liked that on Duriel too though. At least you would know your “hard work” or playtime was leading to something besides… nothing.
On one hand I hate failure rates on crafting where it takes a significant amount of time to farm enough materials for 1 attempt.
On the other hand I fully acknowledge that all current content within the game, aside from higher Tier Pits and level 200 Uber Bosses, does not require Masterworking at all. If you’re good at dodging mechanics level 200 uber bosses are just a game of attrition really, Masterworking will help of course but not entirely needed.
Having played the PTR mostly without upgrading my items through Masterworking I have had no issues damage or survivability wise beating NMD 100 and Tier 53 Pit (so far). I imagine with all of my items upgraded through Masterworking I will be able to go higher in the Pit then the cap of where I get stuck (currently not stuck mind you, just haven’t gone back in to the Pits).
I feel if they keep the % of failure in, they could at least lower it, perhaps 50% max to fail.
Hmm I like that too honestly. Feel like your farming wasn’t totally wasted.
Side note, tested this earlier. You get back 35% (roughly) of the mats you spent to upgrade an item through tempering as well as master crafting if you decide to salvage the item at the blacksmith.
It cost me 4 coils to temper the item twice, I got back 1. It also cost me 40 Obducite to masterwork the item 3 times, and I got back 15. Still have to test it for the higher upgrades.
I personally don’t see any reason to have a failure on something that’s such a linear upgrade. 1-3, 4-7, 8-11 should not have any chance to fail, they’re just straight upgrades.
Having 4/8/12 have a chance to failure is fine, as long as the chance to succeed increases with each failure, and you can choose which attribute you want to masterwork.
For instance, if you allow it to be random, your success chance is always 90%, but if you choose an attribute, it goes down to 60%, if you choose a previously masterworked attribute to double-dip (if that’s possible), reduce it to 30%, then 15%.
This would be the ultimate path for min-maxers, without it really being a problem for more casual people. But having a 60-70% success rate, for a linear upgrade (no RNG), and have it fail multiple times in a row, with no partial refund of the cost etc… is going to drive people away from the game.
I dont mean any disrespect when I say that right now a lot of the endgame content aren’t a lot of peoples cup of tea. I really hope they add more things, which they are with the new updates and stuff but i mean even beyond that. The campaign is amazing. Lilith is a bad@$$…also i still haven’t finished Rebirth. That game has so many minigames i thought i bought a mario party game.
well, i wouldnt mind small adjustments personally of course, i was mostly generally speaking that “its ok that there are upgrade processes that fail”. Especially in a game that doesnt ask for real money on it like LA.
i just dont see a reason for a 100% failproof system.
Normally I would agree with you, but when it comes to crafting, for me personally, it feels different. I’m ok with RNG on item drops, and even the RNG of a Tempering, but they traded the Upgrade System which was 5/5 guaranteed to a 12/12 that gets progressively harder the further you go along, and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
It feels backwards, like I’m working harder to get punished harder. Imagine going to your job, working hard, and you get paid in full for 40 hours for the first week. Next week you work hard again, same amount of hours, but you only get paid for 20 hours instead of 40, even though you worked 40. Next week you work hard again, and now you only get paid for 5 hours instead of 40.
This is how the Masterworking system feels right now, for me anyway.
This pretty much describes my career. I have had countless weeks of mandatory 40-60 hours of unpaid overtime. Not total hours. 40-60 hours in addition to the 40 hours regular time. I had strings of up to 6-8 months where every week was like that in some of my more demanding jobs. And I can say with certainty that it definitely does not feel good.
On topic: I don’t mind the idea of a fail possibility to add some more risk to make the reward sweeter. However, with those fail possibilities I like built in protections such as streak breakers. So you don’t fail 10 times in a row, but you might fail say 2 times in a row. I’m also perfectly fine not having a fail system.
Ok did some more testing, not sure if this was recently patched or it’s always been in since the PTR started. If you fail, the chance to succeed increases by 10%. Better then nothing I suppose. I’m masterworking some gear at the moment, and I hit Rank 7, which has a 50% chance, failed it once, that went up to 60%, failed it again, and now it sits at 70% but I ran out of mats.
I still don’t like the system, but at least there is a fail safe in place, kinda.
No offense, but I think you’re trying to make a comparison to the real world of personal growth that is dis-analogous here. If this were about difficulty, I’d be right there with you, but it’s just about gambling. In the real world it’s often suggested that ideally NO ONE should gamble because the expected value of return is always higher than the cost to participate.
Personally, I’d much prefer that they just make it cost the actual number of farmed mats they want you to spend instead of adding even more luck to it. Sure, sometimes you get lucky and succeed despite the odds, and that feels nice, but the OP is probably correct that a lot of people with poor luck are going to drop like flies when they get hit with back to back to back failures.
