I’m adapting my Blood build to the new temper/masterworking systems. But I’m not sure when it comes to masterworking gear if I should aim to buff my Overpower damage % or focus on Max HP. Would Max HP benefit the damage for Overpower more than the %OP Dmg?
You want to go for Max HP until 15.9k while at the same time stacking OP dmg as much as you can. Then you wanna supplement with +Vul and +Crit Strike Dmg.
You always want to have 2x (double) your base life due to the additive damage formula:
- Overpower attacks gain +1% damage, per 1% of your Base Life that you have in bonus life above your Base Life.
- Overpower attacks gain +1% damage, per 1% of your Base Life you have in Fortify.
Base life is 7959 @lv100 and base life you have in bonus life above base life is 7959, and so 7959*2 = 15,918.
Even after you reach 15.9k, you should continue to build Max HP.
edit: multiplicative portion is +50% or 1.5 as mentioned by Iridium31
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I was just going to replay, but Wukong got this right. If you consider the following product ,as a part of the overpower formula, whether it is additive or multiplicative - gaining more health gives better multiplier:
… ( (TotalLife - BaseLife) + FortifyBaseLife ) × OverpowerDamageBonus …
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- You get +1% additive damage for each 1% of Current (base) Life that exceeds your Base Life
- You get +1% additive damage for each 1% of Fortified (base) Life
The formula for calculating the additive damage bonus is:
([current life] - [base life]) / [base life] + [fortified life] / [base life]
(simplified, only true for [current life] >= [base life])
It’s even easier to calculate the value of bonus life at max hp and fortify:
2 * [bonus life] * [multiplicative hp bonuses] / [base life]
At level 100, your base life is 7959. Gems and paragon nodes are multiplicative with each other. If you have five HP gems the multiplicative hp bonus becomes:
Season 3: 1.04 ^ 5
PTR: 1.09 ^ 5
Paragon nodes work identically.
The multiplicative part of the overpower damage bonus does not depend on stats and is always 50%.
/edit: corrected the values changed in patch 1.3.0
1.3.0 Build #49213 (All Platforms) - January 23, 2024
- Overpower attacks now gain +1% damage, down from +2%, per 1% of your Base Life you have in Fortify.
- Overpower attacks now gain +1% damage, down from +2%, per 1% of your Base Life that you have in bonus life above your Base Life.
I corrected my numbers. Please note that there are no hp breakpoints. The goal of reaching 2x base hp is artificial. Scaling below and above 2x base hp is the same.
Vuln and crit damage aren’t something you move over to after reaching a certain threshold. You might add them on gear pieces that already have overpower damage and bonus hp.
Hmmph… Since S2 I believe Overpower was changed to have four components.
- x50% Bonus Damage Multiplier → 1.5x global multiplier
- +OP% Damage Bonuses → additive bucket
- +Damage % Bonus from Current Life → additive bucket
- +Damage % Bonus from Current Fortify → additive bucket
All of the above apply on OP hits. #3 and #4 were changed in S3, after Overpower was over-hauled in S2, to provide the following.
- Life Bonus = Overpower attacks gain +1% damage, per 1% of your Base Life that you have in bonus life above your Base Life.
- Fortify Bonus = Overpower attacks gain +1% damage, per 1% of your Base Life you have in Fortify.
Both of these are ratios. I believe you could express them individually (#1 and #2) or combine them (#3) in the following manner.
- +Life Bonus % = (Current Life - Base Life) / Base Life x 100
- +Fortify Bonus % = Current Fortify / Base Life x 100
- +Life + Fortify Bonus % = (Current Life - Base Life + Current Fortify) / Base Life x 100
Anyways, if you were to add 100 life you would increase max current life by 100 and max current fortify by 100. The additive damage value (to the “additive bucket”) of this could be expressed as follows.
Life + Fortify Bonus % = (100 + 100) / 7959 x 100 = ~2.51%
Put into words, every 100 life you add above base life provides ~2.51% additive damage at full life and full fortify. If it’s preferable, every 40 bonus life gives ~1% additive damage at full life and full fortify (100 / ~2.51 = ~39.84 = ~40).
Moving along… The question posed by the thread is which gives more damage, improving a +OP % damage bonus or a life bonus? For starters, I believe the following are the max rolls for standard life and OP damage bonus affixes for S3/S4.
- S3/S4 Life Affix = +873 Life
- OP Damage Affix = +63% (s3) or +60% (s4)
At this point the question is how much additive damage is gained via +873 life vs 63% (S3) or 60% (S4) +OP % damage? The OP affixes have the value on the tin. It’s 63% or 60% additive damage on OP hits. From before, every 40 life provides ~1% additive damage. Leading to the following.
873 / 40 = ~22%
Put into words, +873 life via a max rolled life affix provides ~22% additive damage at full life and full fortify. This right here answers the question. Both 63% and 60% > 22%. Conclusion, if you were exclusively concerned with increasing damage output it’s better to improve +OP damage % affixes.
Paragon life % nodes, which stack multiplicatively, throw a wrench in here because they improve value on life affixes. They are not going to improve it enough to cover the gap, however. In fact, you’d need 2388 life from a life affix to get ~60% additive damage at full life and full fortify (accounting for rounding errors…).
All that said, additive damage suffers dimishing returns. Additive OP bonuses often get quite large on builds setup around OP. At a certain point it may be more valuable to increase your life bar and get some additive damage vs higher additive damage. A percent or two increase to overall damage output is… nothing. More life can save your bacon.
@Iridium31
Yep your post helps illustrate the conclusions that I posted. Early game favors Max HP and OP damage (weapon and armor) and then as you approach late game you’d have OP damage in multiple thousand % so you try to be more inclusive of other affixes such as Vuln and CSD in addition to OP and CSC (the basic 2/4 you roll for during lvling).
@BattleTag
I corrected my numbers.
For the record, you corrected AFTER I posted the link to the patch notes (I literally sat there and saw it change AFTER the time period of my post) and TBQH, since mine was correct already, you could’ve not commented at all.
Please note that there are no hp breakpoints.
Why even try to complicate it? Base life in bonus life and base life in fortify is +7959. Simply. So you want to hit that number on or before lv100.
You might add them on gear pieces that already have overpower damage and bonus hp.
Everyone knows what I meant or was saying. It’s obvious.
Well, obviously. I took the 2% value from maxroll, which isn’t up to date. After you posted the link to the patch notes I corrected my post, of course.
Crit and vuln damage go into the same additive bucket as overpower damage. This means their value is quite low if you have thousands of additive damage bonuses, already. There are heaps of stats I’d rather put on my gear at that point.
There’s nothing special about hitting 7959 bonus hp. What’s the point of aiming for a specific number? HP is basically the same as additive OP damage with defensive benefits.
The bonus hp multiplier can be quite large. I don’t think there’s much value in calculating the additive damage bonus from HP without it. Let’s take a build from the maxroll guides. You could get even more multipliers.
- 5x rubies: 1.04^5 = 1.217 (buffed to 9% on ptr)
- 8x 2% hp nodes: 1.02^8 = 1.172
- 4x 4% hp nodes: 1.04^4 = 1.17
1.04^5 * 1.02^8 * 1.04^4 = 1.668
1.09^5 * 1.02^8 * 1.04^4 = 2.109
Theoretical max with every hp paragon node:
1.09^5 * 1.02^15 * 1.04^8 = 2.834
This would bump the ~22% damage bonus to about 60%.
It’s all a moot point anyways as s4 is practically a new game. What we look for in 4/4 gear now is not necessarily the same as s4. We have an idea of what to look for but we don’t have all of the information such as seasonal mechanics & whatnot.
Well uh, if you’re lv100 & don’t have +7959 bonus HP then you’re not doing everything you can to maximize damage from that formula, no matter how small of a piece it may seem. I’d rather do it and not have to worry about it than not doing it and scrambling to fix the problem.
Of course, I’m not saying you should put less than 7959 bonus HP on your gear. I’m saying there’s no threshold to reach. Stat values do not change at any point.
When you say “you should aim for 2x base HP” that’s just an opinion and doesn’t arise from the damage formula.
Uh what? lol! You get 1% dmg per 1% of base life you have in bonus life (79.59). If you don’t have +7959 you’re not at 100%. Why wouldn’t you want to be at 100% when it’s so easy to hit?
Because there’s nothing special about having exactly 100%. It’s linear and uncapped.
It’s not a useful number to know by itself. I mentioned it to indicate getting a life affix up to a comparable damage value to an OP damage affix isn’t likely.
It turns out I completely forgot about rubies though. Oh noes, the rubies! 
From your numbers it’s clear that earlier comment is incorrect. In that case life is just… better. So the answer to the thread question is boost life affixes.
As Battletag noted above, there is nothing special gained from doubling your base life. The bonus from max life and fortify increases linearly. There aren’t any specific breakpoints to aim at. Ignoring rounding shenanigans anyway. Those aren’t big enough to matter.
Yeah, the comparison comes down to how big your total %hp multiplier is. However, there aren’t many gear slots where max hp and OP damage compete, anyway. On rings, you might want to wear crit chance, attack speed and resource cost reduction. On gloves crit chance, attack speed and skill ranks.
Yeah, those stats aren’t competing in many areas. I’d probably prioritize life where it comes up. Even without enough health nodes to make it yield more damage. Life + some damage > damage for the values here, in my opinion.
Exactly right. After messing with numbers and moving different stats around with tempering and masterworking in mind (We don’t know what nerfs might happen, but this is based on current information) I pretty much came to the following…
- HP eventually loses its value in terms of OP damage% (Max Roll with a Greater Affix is about 1703 = Roughly like 21% OP Damage or 42% with Fortify, Even fully masterworked is still around 59% increase to OP damage with Fortify)
- Slots that can have both OP and HP is best used for OP and another Stat that will benefit more overall. Such as Crit chance on Rings or +Core Skills on Gloves.
- If you can have OP damage on it, take it. Overpower gets a higher stat roll compared to Vuln/Crit damage. Also you can double it up with the Temper “Blood Overpower Damage”.
So I have to thank all of you. So it basically answered my question and helped with other things I hadn’t really looked at yet.
Here are the offensive stats from the D4 Planner (Overpower from Tempers and HP + Fortify are not calculated in. I added it to it.)
- Weapon Damage 3,203
- Weapon Speed 1.15
- Attack Speed Bonus 87.0% | Aspects → (30% to Basic) (50% on Overpower)
- Critical Strike Chance 47.9%
- Critical Strike Damage 82.6%
- Overpower Chance 3.0%
- Overpower Damage 4,027% = 1,976% Gear + 992%HP/Fort + 1,058%Tempers
- Vulnerable Damage 20.0%
- All Damage 143.8%
- Damage vs Crowd Controlled 128.7%
- Damage vs Injured 143.8%
- Damage while Healthy 62.5%
- Damage while Fortified 90.0%
- Damage from Blood Orb 45.0%
Maximum Life
47,449
Skills
- Hemorrhage (300%+ to blood orb chance with tempers)
- Blood Lance
- Raise Skeleton (Defenders and Cold Mages)
- Corpse Tendrils
- Decrepify
- Blood Mist
- Blood Golem Sacrificed for HP
If you’re interested in more details feel free to ask. Don’t wanna leave too much of a text wall…
You get 2% damage bonus for every 80 life you have over 7,959.
You get up to 200% damage bonus for 7,959 base life fortified.
You get up to 50% damage bonus based on total health percentage just for being an Overpower hit.
Maximum life value is decreased as you progress because higher ilvl items have higher overpower damage values. For instance you would need to add 3,600 life to gain 90% overpower damage bonus you get from a 2h currently. 1,200 life added to get 30% overpower damage bonus.
But all those life values don’t get modified in the same way with paragon boards and the sacrifice bonus. So you actually have to add much more life to maintain the same value. The new values with S4 make the discrepancy even greater. That’s kind of why people say to stop at 15,918 life, it becomes less valuable by the time you have that much life.
The correct formulas were posted above. A couple of things in your post are incorrect and/or misleading.
You get 2% damage bonus for every 80 life you have over 7,959.
As wukong pointed out, this was changed in patch 1.3. You get 1% additive damage for each 79.59 life above 7,959.
You get up to 200% damage bonus for 7,959 base life fortified.
It’s not up to 200%. You get 1% additive damage for each 79.59 fortified life. There’s no cap.
You get up to 50% damage bonus based on total health percentage just for being an Overpower hit.
This bonus differs from the other. It is multiplicative. Also, it doesn’t depend on your current life percent or stats. You get a 1.5 multiplier on overpowering hits. Period.
Maximum life value is decreased as you progress because higher ilvl items have higher overpower damage values.
Bonus HP is literally converted into additive OP damage. They scale identically. Higher ilvl items have higher HP bonuses, too.
But all those life values don’t get modified in the same way with paragon boards and the sacrifice bonus. So you actually have to add much more life to maintain the same value. The new values with S4 make the discrepancy even greater.
I don’t even get what you’re saying here. Please elaborate.
I think what he’s getting at is that you have to build significantly more Max HP to get the same value. As you’ve pointed out before, it’s additive damage and you’re already looking at 1000’s of %.