[LVL 100] You CANT melee in Nightmare

Rogue
1

Hi, i’m a level 100 rogue and i’m grinding nightmare dungeon for a week (since lvl 100) probably 10 to 12 hours a day (don’t judge me ok)

I’m playing around twisting blade (or other melee build) and tried everything, from deathtrap to imbuement, hybrid build, smoke, all movement ability…

And my conclusion is just, you can’t play melee rogue right now after 75+ key, and have fun (in solo)
60 to 70 key are easy if you are targeting the right dungeon (without too much ranged mob) but after that you are getting one shot.

Even with a full def build (dark shroud level 10… & others), even if you are dodging a lot of incoming damage you are going to be hit and die. At least 5 time during your run.

The dilema is:
-Too much defense build and you will die due to no shroud / no CC or being CC because of the REALLY long fight against elite
-Too much DPS and you are dead.

I know that we are early in the game, I know that everything as not been discovered about our class but right now I feel HARD stuck.

Even if it’s pretty hard to find 810+ item (95% of looted item are trash under 800 ilvl…) i’ve got good roll on my stats and can’t improve my stuff that much. I also use strong / rare elixir on every dungeon.

PLEASE, tell me i’m doing something wrong and other melee rogue are able to farm higher key (no, doing ONE 80 key is not a proof of a good build).

I’m seeing only nerf about our class when others class have a great time in high keys.
I’m not complaining, I just feel like something is wrong in the character concept of the melee rogue.

Dark shroud IS mandatory and take a slot that would be very useful (and fun) to put a damage / utility skill and make the whole viable.

And no, I don’t want to play ranged rogue !
Just want a skilled and fun melee one.

I would appreciate your takes about it because i’m not going to spend another 100 hours doing 70+ key without feeling any progression.

16 Likes
2

Yea blizzard nerft our class with out nay high level data. Probably have to reroll druid or barb if you want to meele

5 Likes
3

Awe man, reading this has sucked out my hope of pushing high as a current 76 rogue in HC.

1 Like
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Solo is a nogo just like D3…

Rogue’s need a party or you’re dead in water by 85, as you’ll die, or spend entire day rolling maps for that “proper” one…

Why I quit D3 after one season, highest I could get, even with a top tier meta build solo was GR130…

You have to party or never get to the “proper” end game/stone level…

Here, you may get glyphs maxed, but it’s gonna take forever, and seasons won’t give you that kind of time…

It’s only 3 mo…So you have to party…

3 Likes
5

Agreed with this post. My TB rogue is hard stuck at 75-80 solo. Get one shot regardless with 10k buffed armor, a ton of DR or a little less with temerity and 18k effective HP.

Also, the rewards are crap and I feel like I’m dying for no good reason. So there’s that, as well.

6 Likes
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Oh, I didn’t mention that I didn’t play D3 season (so I was hoping I did something wrong in my way to play or build my character).

And to be honnest glyph doesn’t take that much time to be maxed (even if you are not playing that much).

Playing in a group is definitely fun, but I don’t want it to be my only way to have fun and play the game…

7

I’m nowhere near the content you’re at (solo player at level 54 HC), so keep that in mind.

But to me it doesn’t sound THAT unreasonable.
There will always be some builds that are better than others at different stages of the game. (and some builds that are just worse at most stages).

Melee rogues are ideal for a good part of the game - also better than ranged - but from what you’re describing it sounds like the rogue simply become to squishy (or with too little unbreakable I’d imagine) for melee once you reach a certain point.

While it of course would be nice if all builds where viable at all times, that’s not really a realistic goal from a balancing perspective. Especially because things tend to loss what makes them unique if everything need to perform well at all stages of the game.

So from what you’re describing it sounds like you either need to go ranged at rogue, where you are now, and if you heavily prefer melee need to reroll to barb or druid.

8

He has a point. But still TB plays super nice and good (with the right items and Paragon). I shave through everywhere and if I just the key dungeons only up to 75 can play solo, then that’s just unfortunately so (FYI: I am 98)

It’s just one aspect of the game. I think there will be more skills and classes that have similar or worse problems. Especially Diablo has always shown in the past that this season, for example, the one spec and in another season the other spec is top playable.

That will always change. Either you adapt and change your skills and the corresponding equipment or you play as you play and may have to accept from patch to patch to be either stronger or weaker.

9

I cannot disagree with this more. It’s entirely realistic if the effort is put into it. The big problem isn’t necessarily the classes, but the scaling. I haven’t fully experiences that super-high level yet, but from what I understand, the enemies scale WAY beyond your ability to compensate for it even with the absolute best gear, which is stupid. They need to find a better solution to high level monsters and radically cut back their raw damage.

Maybe at a certain point giving all monsters in a NM dungeon elite abilities?

Making the end-game entirely based around “one-shot or be one-shot” is one of the worst things about D3 and PoE. D4 shouldn’t be adopting that style.

4 Likes
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I don’t disagree with your point about super-high level sounding kinda meh. Haven’t tried it myself yet.

But to have every build across every class be equally strong at any point of the game is simply impossible, unless you essentially streamline everything until you have 34 extremely boring and similar builds.

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I didn’t say equally strong. I said equally viable, meaning they are all capable of achieving the same goal, though some may be slower to do it than others. Right now, from what we can tell, for some builds it is objectively impossible to go beyond a certain point because the mechanics do not allow it.

That should change.

5 Likes
12

Ah yeah fair enough :slight_smile:
I agree that it shouldn’t be that survival with some builds are simply impossible to use.
Bad sure, but not (realistically) impossible.
Especially since I play HC :smiley:

13

But to me it doesn’t sound THAT unreasonable.
There will always be some builds that are better than others at different stages of the game. (and some builds that are just worse at most stages).

I’m 100% ok with the fact that some build are better than the others and are rotating each season (as an OW player i’m used to that).

But in fact one range build and one melee build should be able to reach the end content.
Maybe melee can and I didn’t find the way to achieve 80+ keys, but if it’s not achievable it’s just a balance / conception issue and not something “normal” imo.

Again, maybe it’s doable we / I don’t know everything about melee rogue.

Also everyone is talking about penetrating shot build as a HIGH KEY killer (and I can understand that because of kitting mobs) but all video / guide I watched are people not even level 100 or doing +50 key with clickbait title.

Does someone know a penetrating shot rogue doing 80-90 key ?

14

yeah sounds about right :slight_smile:

slightly off topic… But what IS actual end-game content?
I honestly thought it would scale upwards indefinitely like in d3, but do d4 have an actual ceiling?
Or are you just talking about reaching the point where can get the best gear the game has to offer?

15

slightly off topic… But what IS actual end-game content?
I honestly thought it would scale upwards indefinitely like in d3, but do d4 have an actual ceiling?
Or are you just talking about reaching the point where can get the best gear the game has to offer?

For me right now is to be able to do a 100 key before the fift difficulty release.
Maybe my aim is to high but I feel that is the ultimate goal with uber lilith

1 Like
16

If you are an X build class and have no desire to play a Y build or Z class, and they are the only ones viable at end game, then you don’t play the end game.

Then you realize you have no reason to play the game anymore and move to a different game.

Stupid design decision.

9 Likes
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The goal is never-ending increase in difficulty. It’s not like in D2 where everyone manages to kill the uber and the difference is shaving some time off the stopwatch. Here you either survive/ clear the content, or you don’t.

They’ll never ever be “capable of achieving the same goal” in a progression system where the goal is a yes/no result of whether you can clear the dungeon or not. Though I guess we will have content with time limits soon enough, so inefficient/ slow builds will limit progression, as survivability does now for melee rogues, and then TB will overtake penetrating shot again, as it is much, much, much more efficient at actually kill stuff.

Ideally we’d have many builds capable of performing competitvely in end game. But given the community we have for this game, if build 1 clears NM 100 and build 2 clears NM 105, we’ll have half the forum posts claiming build 1 is not viable in endgame. You can never win

2 Likes
18

I think only druids and barbs have been able to solo nm t100 as of now, so rogue not been able to do it isn’t really that unexpected. My guess is whatever new content in season one will give every class a boost in power and then you will be able to clear nm 100 (or maybe the game will be dead by season 1 if it has 0 interesting content).

Also, correct me if I’m wrong but the highest nm tier that I’ve seen ranged rogues pushed to is ~50 so range still seems to be worse than TB rn (edit: nvm just saw a post on pen shot rogue beating nm t70).

19

I mean I cleared a 57 yesterday at 82. No idea if I will hit a wall with TB/melee. I think the key is knowing when to stop facerolling and get out

20

totally agreed. all classes/builds should be viable at end game if played correctly.