Idea for improving itemization in 3 steps

:stop_sign: Edits Oct.1: Collapsed ‘Bonuses’ + added elaboration. +Uniques options.

:diamond_shape_with_a_dot_inside::diamond_shape_with_a_dot_inside: HOW TO PARTLY FIX AN UNDERLYING LOOT PROBLEM IN 3 STEPS :diamond_shape_with_a_dot_inside::diamond_shape_with_a_dot_inside:
(problem is buried under layers of “fixes” & semantics)

:question: One of the original problems was creating this fake category called “Legendary” (which was NOT analogous to D3 Legendary, which in turn was mostly analogous to D2 Unique). D4 “Legendary” was just Rare + Aspect.

:arrow_right::arrow_right: 1: Delete ‘Legendary’ from the game. It’s a fake category. Cut the umbilical cord to the original idea: Remove it from the lexicon. It would only take 1 full season to do. Say “SORRY, we didn’t put enough testing & brainstorming into this one. We might’ve reconsidered things if we had time, but we didn’t.” Restore Rares to the ‘correct’ number of affixes.

Bonus:

Summary

:medal_sports: Bonus: The ugly “orange smudge” Legendary icons wouldn’t have to be redesigned… they’d be gone. (Just fix the ugly “brown smudge” that is Unique icons.) (No point using a different color for GA Rares, which might’ve been an option… since GA’s will now be 100% of Ancestrals… so no need to differentiate, we’ve got “stars” I guess. ‘Hey… how about adding multiple stars?’ Good job.)

:medal_sports: Bonus: An Aspect that would not upgrade your Codex will be greyed-out when it drops = knockoff loot filter (similar to “stars”). Alternative: Aspect that would not upgrade your Codex will not drop. Why keep the first option handy? In case Aspects have vendor value, similar to “trash Legendaries”, because some players like to sell trash… i.e. it’s an available option for the devs, and both options greatly reduce clutter for all players.

  • Elaborating to avoid confusion: it reduces clutter for all players, in that the instinct to pick up trash in case it would upgrade the Codex would now be 100% gone.
  • If this was originally a scheme to get players to pick up more trash, welp… solved. Figure out something more creative, devs.

:medal_sports: Bonus: Now when devs raise or lower the (equipable) loot drop rate, there are no downsides for Codex farming.

:medal_sports: Bonus: Now Rares have meaning again: they’ve reclaimed their original glory from fake Legendaries.

:small_red_triangle_down:

:arrow_right::arrow_right: 2: Aspects shouldn’t be extracted from gear. They should just be physical drops: salvaged at the Occultist (where the Codex is… cool huh? No more “Blacksmith sends Aspect to Occultist” weirdness). Add a “Salvage All” button for Aspects at the Occultist. Eventually you’d just add Aspects directly to the Codex when picked up.

Bonus:

Summary

:medal_sports: Bonus: No need to adjust (equipable) loot density for this, which you’re constantly tweaking in order to avoid implementing a loot filter. In S6, does the lower loot density mean our Codex will be super slow to max out? This fix saves you frantic damage-control sessions to address a ‘new’ problem. (Did you think slowing the Codex grind was a side benefit for engagement metrics? Or did you not anticipate it at all? Either way, fixed.)

:medal_sports: Bonus: No need to adjust storage… since we’re salvaging 99% of “Legendaries” as it is, to get at the Aspect. So just give us the Aspect… because it’ll get salvaged.

  • Elaborating to avoid confusion: a physical Aspect is just a gear item, it goes in main bag slot. You are now doing the exact same thing you’ve been doing in S4-S5, only you’re salvaging Aspects… at the Occultist. (Bonus: give us salvage mats in the process. It makes sense. They are physical things just like armor.)

:small_red_triangle_down:

:arrow_right::arrow_right: 3: Aspects get applied to an item (e.g. Rare) without fake “changing” the item type. It’s now just a Rare with an Aspect. Simple, right?

:arrow_right: At this point we’ll have Magic, Rare, Unique. Makes sense. Now the world’s your oyster:

:question: Possibly make Aspects imprintable onto a Unique? Limit the # of Aspects imprinted on equipped Uniques - e.g.: “1 max”? “Upto 2 & must be Ancestral”? “Upto 2 when at least 1 of them is Ancestral”? That visual cue already exists in game - players are already primed to recognize it as “uh oh, too many of something”.
:question: Possibly make Aspects imprintable onto Magic? Because why not. Back then, you didn’t have a ‘proper’ Codex. Now you do. So give it freedom. Let it breathe. Some people will be running around with blue items + Aspect. It’ll be fun. This is essentially a feature for alts… alts get power since Mythics became more accessible, and since S6 makes Paragon account-wide.
:question: Possibly restrict Aspects+Uniques to armor & weapon slots? …i.e. more options for builds with build-enabling Uniques, but controlling power creep by excluding Unique jewelry (juice up Unique jewelry slightly) or excluding Unique amulets (juice up Unique amulets slightly).

Bonus:

Summary

:medal_sports: Bonus: Now some crappy Uniques have second life.

:small_red_triangle_down:
:arrow_right: Mythics are ineligible ofc (technically they’re Unique).

:arrow_right: Add a “Remove Aspect” button at Occultist for cleanup purposes.

:arrow_right: You can now continue to tweak drop rates, affix pool, item design for builds, etc.

:diamond_shape_with_a_dot_inside::diamond_shape_with_a_dot_inside: Conclusion:

  • You’ll never get as elegant as D2 itemization, so the loot grind will be tedious until you implement a loot filter… because you made Rares + Aspects = core itemization. (And you’ve now complicated things with fake rune words.) D3 avoided all this by making Uniques 100% of gearing - they just called them “Legendary” (sorta) and “Set”. Probably too late for D4 to do the same.
  • But the past 1+ year of “fixes” to the mess have been half-hearted, without long-term vision. You purged the absurd loot affix pool, and demoted Rares to nothing… and then added a proper Codex.
  • That was because you couldn’t fix the Codex sooner. Which was because you couldn’t see the various problems with the Aspect system in the first place. Which was probably an organization & vision problem (you-know-who was probably resisting revisions every step of the way).
  • :arrow_up: This is a long-term vision that preserves Aspects, while restoring some sanity in various systems (more efficient loot grind, more meaningful drops, better UI, no more “ugly orange smudges”) and leaves you free to use Aspects in more diverse & intuitive ways that encourage experimentation (e.g. Uniques + Aspects).
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this is basically pre-s4. no that isnt what we wanted. itemization is fine now. definitely doesnt need what you suggest

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100% wrong. You didn’t understand the post.

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basically make it where instead of legendaries being important we only care about rares. and then imprinting aspects on to rares. what part of that doesnt sound familiar?

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The problem isn’t getting the items. It’s getting decent rolls on the items. If only there’s a shorter way to get decent rolls on all affixes. Or have tons of gear drop that so there’s a higher chance at getting decent rolls.

Im not sure what this change accomplishes. All it does is turn legos into rares with more aspect juggling to do. Why do rares have to mean something? We already have a loot progression from blues to rares to legends to legends with uniques and mythics. This solves a problem that doesnt exist.

To improve itemization here is what should happen.

1] White and Blues removed from game. If one of these would drop its now a rare.
2] Legacy Mythic items dont exist. Mythical Items that are changed become the new versions.
3] Items drop less but ranges are tightened up. Example Starfall Coronet has a range of 4-10s just for the main stat. This would be changed to 4-6s.
4] Alternate art cosmetics mythics added to game. This gives players with the D2 super rare loot hunt something to go for longterm. 1 in 500 mythics are alternate art.
5] Items can no longer brick and you can keep a previous roll just like enchanting. Manuals are fixed to prevent bricking. Tempering 2.0 :hammer: - PC General Discussion - Diablo IV Forums (blizzard.com)

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These ‘solutions’ look familiar… either I’m having another episode of dejavu or some one else posted these exact things a month ago. Either way, good luck, let me know when September ends if they ever implement your changes.

Are you guys able to read? What are legendaries now if not rares with an aspect attached on them? I understand that in the live version they nerfed rares to have 1 less affix but it’s not that hard to think of legendaries as a rare with an aspect attached on them.
Currently you drop a legendary with the affixes you want, what is the next step for that item? Put on the aspect you need because 99.9% of the time it won’t drop with the aspect for your build. Legendaries are useless in d4 and are just aspect holders, what op proposes is something more elegant and it would open the game to some further ideas to open up aspects and use them in more interesting ways.

2 Likes

Ok boomer :rofl: I’ve played since D1 there’s nothing particularly elegant about D2 it’s just more straightforward and railroaded you into uniques and runewords anyway, which were just uniques with extra steps.

In all seriousness not one of the issues you brought up is one of the actual problems with itemization.

How is it more elegant? It takes a clean system and makes it more confusing and convoluted where aspects are now just drops not even on an item? How is this better?

2 aspects on each unique this would be way too OP.

All this does is turn legos into rares. We dont need that. We need solutions to real problems as I listed in my above post.

There is no reason rares have to mean something.

I agree with urza unless whites or blues become useful for example chase transmogs items just drop them from the game.

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One thing I agree with the OP on 100% is that aspects should drop as recipes rather than on items (“legendaries”). The way the system is now, it’s a major pain to find a legendary that’s an “upgrade” over the lego I’m wearing–particularly in the mid-to-late game when that’s happening often. In this case, I have to go to the blacksmith to salvage the old item and then to the occultist to reprint the aspect I was using before onto the new item.

Imo, aspects should be learned traits that are applied to “slots” for gloves, boots, armour, etc. Equipment comes and goes, but the aspect should stay with that slot until you decide to change it.

Not sure where this falls on the list of priorities, but aspect management, and the overall presentation of the build you’re running, is still a sore spot in D4.

Garbage sifter simulator is not what most people find fun or ok but you do you.

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If you dont understand what the OP is suggesting or why it is better than the current system in literally every way, then read it again. There are zero flaws in his logic. Every single part of his suggestion makes the game systems cleaner and require less juggling without dumbing anything down or diluting progression systems. You would end up with the same system we have now but in a far more intuative way.

Just take half a second to look at the way the guy formatted his post. This is obviously someone organized who has thought all this out.

Implement it tomorrow.

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A bunch of emojis doesnt make it good. Its not good. I am a truth teller. IF your post is good I will tell you why. If your post is bad I will tell you why. I have no agenda. This post is not good for reasons I stated already.

It just turns rares into legends.
It adds another drop to the game that is not needed.
It makes uniques too OP if they can have aspects.
Rares that dont become legos with aspect will mean you dont know what rares have aspects unless you mouse over each one.
You are just trading orange smudge for yellow smudge.

No, youre turning Aspects into Tempering-style drops. You wont have to pick them up over and over.

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Ive stated very clearly why this is a bad idea. IT also has 8 9 edits so that is alot.

This is a new problem

Magic should just be removed from the game.

that’s all I needed to see in order to know your ideas belong in the trash.

Aspects should be drops that goes directly to the occultist.
Remove sacred/ancestral…
Have everything drop from anywhere, and do not force players to do things they don´t want to do just to get materials for the things they originally wanted to do. Note: can still have target farming.
On the subject, have everything “level up” from any type of activity. Like glyphs gains XP from anywhere, etc. Do not force content upon players…
Say as an example if gems only dropped in the gauntlet. Players would defenitely want gems (they don´t need it though), but i believe most of us do not want to play the gauntlet…

World tier 1 - Drops common, magic & rare items.
World tier 2 - Drops magic, rare & legendary items. Common items gets converted to materials & gold.
World tier 3 - Drops rare, legendary & unique items. Common & magic items gets converted to materials & gold.
World tier 4 - Drops legendary, unique & mythical unique items. Common, magic, & rare items gets converted to materials & gold.
World tier 5 - Drops legendary, unique & mythical unique items. Common, magic, & rare items gets converted to materials & gold.

Common items - 2 implicit affixes, 0 random affix.
Magic items - 2 implicit affixes, 0-1 random affix.
Rare items - 2 implicit affixes, 1 random affix.
Legendary items - 2 implicit affixes, 1-2 random affixes.

All can have aspects smacked onto them.
All can roll with GA:s (from all difficulties).
All can be tempered to add 2 more affixes.

Unique items - 6 implicit affixes.
Mythical unique items - 6 implicit affixes.

At least change tempering to enable players to keep the previous roll…
Reduce the drop rate of all weapons, armor, & jewelry like… 10x.

Seems like we would lose some affixes (mostly on jewelry). However, we would gain 1 on gloves and helms (right?).
Would then prefer to remove resistance from the implicit affixes on jewelry (move these to armorpieces instead), have maybe cooldown reduction% + resource cost reduction% as implicit on jewelry, something that would benefit everyone.

Lol did you think about it for even a second? :smiley: :smiley:

You idea is not bad… and also not good, bcs it would change literary nothing :smiley:

We would just collect rares + aspects instead of legendary but in the end outcome would be exactly same.

Exactly. Lots of work for devs and outcome will be same like now. Worthless work.