There’s a 3rd option, going pure hit / crit based, but putting 1 point in poison imbuement to get the multipliers from using an imbued skill, although you could use any imbuement, not just poison imbuement. For example, cold imbuement has more multipliers for the hit damage. That’s a question that will be hard to answer without a very complicated spreadsheet or damage calculator. It depends on what kind of content you want to do (and also partly, whether PVP has a crit damage cap or not if you want to do PVP). If poison imbuement double dipped on every stat, it would be an absurdly broken skill, effectively a x254% damage multiplier.
The other guy said poison is useless on rapid fire, completely untrue, if not completely opposite of reality.
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did you also already tested the tracker glyph? It seems to have a toolbar bug where it shows duration of 8 sec but dmg numbers stay the same
I did not test tracker glyph, but I explained how I think it works, though. You do the same # damage ticks that you have for 6 seconds, for 2 extra seconds. It is essentially 33% more damage overall.
yeah I understand the theory and assumend the same but since the toolbar is bugged or not working right I am confused. maybe will test it at some point
Hi Esteban, I sent you a friend request, so we may enjoy testing things together and sharing information in real time
I have up to 3 total accounts, a hota barb almost max level on 1 account and a 80 sorc on another account, as well as my 100 rogue on my account.
We can test variations of things together
Thank you very much for all the testing.
If I am understanding correctly, you are saying that affixes such as "+ damage vs closed enemies, +damage vs chilled enemies… All those conditional + damage affixes will not increase the DOT from poisoning damage ?
Need this to be confirmed very bad. Please correct me if I am understanding wrong cause i am trying to build around a poison build. Thanks again.
no he’s not saying that. all of this affixes you mention go into that additive “damage” bracket he also stated it
I think Imbuments are damage only calculated after the fact
Total Damage with modifiers → Then Imbuement damage is calculated.
Which makes it arguably quite bad as it is calculated after crit
So if you
Do Base 100 damage + 100 poison
with 2x Crit
You expect it to be 400
Instead what you get is 300
100 x 2 + 100
As EfficientR said, non-typed damage, or just ‘damage’ (damage vs, damage while) will also affect the poison DoT. If it’s typed damage, it has to be poison damage, poisoning damage, or imbuement skill damage.
yea, that’s just crit damage not affecting damage over time (this is the same for all DoTs). There is 1.75 multiplier from blended poison imbuement, though. Poison imbuement would have been too strong if it double dipped on everything.
Regarding PVP, I tested crit damage with a friend. Crit damage seems to be capped at 150% (2.5x multiplier), with heavy penalties (probably over 90% reduction) to additional crit damage past 150%. 237% crit damage gave 150% bonus, and 360% was barely any more damage than 150%.
The problem with going a pure poison build in PVP (or PVE), though, is that it seems poison cannot apply to people who still have a barrier after the hit damage. You need to do enough damage to destroy the barrier in order to poison them on the same hit. Same thing with applying vulnerable (at least by the exploit glyph, or puncture), vulnerable cannot be applied until you do actual health damage.
How that so btw?
Shadow imbue can increase non-physical damage and apply vulnerable
Cold stack a lot with rapidfire and adds bit of damage when cold or frozen.
But poison, unless you use it purely for “dmg to poisoned” does seem to stack only once with rapidfire, or is calculated poorly.
I say this from the pvp and uber lilith context.
F.e. I stack around 50k poison tick with rapidfire, but with the same build, just swaped to twisted blades I can stack almost half mil poison tick. Even tho rapid fire does much more damage, and has higher base stat.
But if you have different findings i would be glad if i didnt thought of something.
I stack hundreds of thousands with rapid fire. Even tanky elites tankier than the boss will have their bar halfed, then i hit them with cold as well. Cold is great, I’m just saying poison rapid fire is far from useless. Shadow is fine if you’re struggling with groups, but id rather sub it for pen shot abd run that along side rapid.
I tried this mostly on Uber lilith, all elites +10lvls die in one rapidfire. My problem is that if i deal 3/4hp with one rapid fire to the last boss, the poison wont be even the rest 1/4.
Which is around +15% dmg dealt in next few secs, which is not bad, but useless in pvp next to the other two imbuements, and with the lilith its minor damage, that can be swapped for little bit more cc stack with shadow.
Again in comparison, its not hard to deal full hp poison to the same boss with twisted blades in a fraction of a second.
And this difference is even more noticable if you spec for poison.
My point being, why would you use something that deals fraction of a damage, unless i didnt thought of something, with rapid fire, when there is a better alternative. More so when the main thing, the poison pool from aspect that lets you reimbue, is spawned at close range, so in the end you have to stand close throwing away the long range advantage of the skill too.
The aspect of noxious ice does 25% (multiplicative damage) to frozen. Say I already put 6 points to Frigid finesse & Mixed Cold imbuement that gives me a total of 100% damage to frozen.
Is it 125% poison damage to frozen?
or
(100% poison damage to frozen) x 1.25%?
Probably the most clean kills against Uber Lilith I’ve seen have been rapid fire poison imbued builds
noxious ice, mixed cold imbuement, and frigid finesse, are all multiplicative . However you cannot use cold / poison imbuement at the same time unless you are doing the rain of arrows amulet, so I would not include mixed cold imbuement as increasing your poison damage.
And most of them had to play perfectly and did around 200k per tick with poison.
While me doing 50k per tick switching to twisted blades does 500k per tick without any min/max (ive seen up to 5m per tick).
So again, its not about that it doesnt do anything, and if you want to do max damage with rapidfire you ll ofc take it. But
- poison imb. has low scaling with rapidfire
- the damage done with rf is around 10% of all damage with poison (9x300k rf damage + 200k tick of poison)
- you can beat lilith with just damage but usualy you want to also stagger, so swapping a little bit of damage for a big window of downed boss is usualy more wanted.
- to use poison effectively you need the aspect that makes the puddle, which makes you into close range - why would you use rf in close range when twisted blades are more effective? unless are you just doing it for doing it
I came here to learn about poison imbue, not to defend that its not that effective on rf, but your reply is “but i saw them use it”… isnt helpful. So if you want to tell me its good, point out something i missed or show some testing why that is.
Any idea if Versatility impacts poison dmg?
you were asking why to use RF, it seems less exploitive (stagger, stacking poison w/bursting venoms) and more fun than TB.
From a pure min-max build TB almost always the way to go. Do you think TB with bursting venoms stacks is working as intended or bugged?
I think TB doesnt work as intended with poison imbue, the first hit does normal amount of poison, the extreme stacking starts when the dagger comes back and spins around you.
If anybody tested this, let me know.
Also I am playing purely rf in s0, and i would say that rf is the most single target dps out of all rogue skills, besides tb´s poison, for some reason.
And tbs are almost unusable in pvp, if the enemy has any kind of barier or cc break which everbody usualy has at 100lvl. But you stand still as a max armor thorns barb and you ll get oneshoted by rapidfire. That up to 9x4m dmg is insane but its still somehow not awesome by the game standarts compared to meta builds.
It also lacks survival ability (even with dark shrouds and 80% armor).
I just never use poison for the fact that i dotn like to play up close, which means 2x rf gets slight dmg boost. I really rather shadow imbue which increases dmg stacks stun, then frozen to stack cc and increase dmg even more, and repeat. Unless they change number on poison imbue aspects that has ridiculous numbers.
Did anybody here did the math, if ignoring crit damage and using poisoning affixes instead increase the overall damage for any other skill besides twisting blades?