Those who defend Tempering are afraid that the game will become very short for others.
They want this game to be successful, and they will consider that “more time played” is a way to measure the success of the game.
Anything that slows down the experience, no matter what it is, is positive for this type of player.
So they are willing to make the game worse and more boring in exchange for increasing game time. They also believe that more play time produces more fun.
At the same time, many of those who think this way are not willing to slow down. They use the fastest strategies to go as fast as possible, reducing their own “fun time”. So, for these types of players, it is 100% about others and not about themselves.
The point is to “make the game better” according to their “beliefs” and not their own fun. They are willing to have less fun in exchange for making the game “more successful”.
I have yet to see anyone say: “changing tempering will decrease MY playing time”, BUT, I am sure that not everyone is as I have described here. There are surely people who like to go very slow, do not take the fastest routes, and believe that tempering is “too easy” as it is now FOR THEM. But these types of players are surely destroying their imperfect items, even if they still have attempts left, in order to play more (instead of complaining on the forums).
Just remember that in this sense/topic, the most selfish complaints are the most sincere.
About as much as everyone else adding in their own opinions. Again I’m playing devil’s advocate, it’s what I’ve always done. When people engage with me, I’ll typically offer a different perspective to get people to see both sides, or other possibilities. I also like to go down the rabbit hole of possibilities, to a reasonable extent, and based off what the devs have said.
I don’t expect people to agree with me, I just try to get people to be more open minded is all. I encourage questions and rebuttals. If it makes you think twice about your suggestion, great, you should question it. If some one is 100% certain their idea will make the game better, I just ask why they think that way, and for them to think of it from the opposite side of why it wouldn’t make the game better.
Your ideas are clearly based off of your own bias as to what would make the game better for you, not the player base. We can assume of course, as we’ve already been doing, but we don’t know for certain.
Now I will always go back to the numbers don’t lie argument. If people are still willing to play the game and/or purchase said game, clearly the game is doing something right. D3 is a prime example of this through the years. The fact the forum is pretty much 50/50 about what D3 did to the franchise is also proof. All we can say for certain is, the game was successful at the beginning (sales wise), and it continued to be successful, regardless of its rocky start.
Indeed when they killed the sorc in beta and almost neutered all classes in s1 the game didnt get better. You know when it did? When they normalized ND and made resistances work. We already have infinite enemy scaling with the pit, the game will NEVER become too easy, stop demanding it be turned into a slog to stroke you masochism fetish. With an audience of mostly 25+ I really wonder how many hours such individuals are willing to dedicate to a gameplay that hasnt changed in 15 years. Pretty much all H&S ARPGs are iterations of the same game that differ from each other about as much as chinese webnovels do.
Patch 1.1 is still the best patch in D4 so far tbh.
Game did get better. It just also got worse the next second due to all kinds of power creep, Barber gems and what not.
Blizzard just need to nerf player power a lot more. Over and over, until we get back to sensible scaling that makes the game manageable for Blizzard in the future.
Perhaps people would consider a Trade with some of these (for example the last one => 4 out of 5 are borderline godlike and number of rolls is pretty high)… And can really end up playing with the numbers (both rolls of affix pool, their range, as well as attempt rolls in the manual), point being ?
The possibilities are ENDLESS, and so is the excitement/fun along with it
This way as is ? (always same, always predetermined, everyone having the same possibilities, meh)
The game needs much more individualized impact of performance (but with a much better baseline balance between skills), rather than providing equal opportunities to everyone (while still being baseline near-broken)
That’s been a problem/theme for quite a while now tbh
Kind of a loaded question because you are going to get a lot of different answers, as everyone plays the game for different reasons, and they all play differently with different amount of knowledge.
D4 is at its base a very very simple game, its hard to mess up any build and gearing is very very easy compared to most ARPG’s I play, requires almost no thought. I enjoy it, and think its a fun change of pace from playing path of exile myself, but it will not keep me playing for long.
I know this sounds really cool, but you end up with the same stash problem as you had with aspects. You find these manuals, but they have limited rolls and so you don’t want to use them
until you have that GG item to use them on.
Just adding stash tabs doesn’t really solve it because that massive stash becomes unwieldy and annoying to search through. My character in LE had this issue and I only had 2 tabs worth of stuff.
That’s the whole point, now we have almost empty stashes (unless keeping GA items for rolls for Alts)
The problem with Aspects was much worse than this, mainly cause it was a Chore/Routine (check if duplicate, check if higher roll or lower, check if already equipped, check if item you want to equip aspect on has already been imprinted)
This is much more of a nuance/niche issue (especially considering Temper manuals could and probably should drop less often than Legendaries on Helltide for ex.) - would also break the “routine” of gameplay if they’re intended for something else (say completing a higher Pit level guarantees a couple of these, NMDs on completion could have a 33% chance to drop one, and random Helltide events that aren’t Ritual have a 5% chance to drop some)
And by those I mean Legendary Tempering manuals (regulars and rares can drop almost say as 1/10 as often as an item would)
Well it’s a trade-off to have. Either have a routine-first (like predetermined by “pattern” gameplay, or have a more nuanced/enriched one but having to take a few more stops in town to double-check if something may have been amiss)
I think the latter is much better, (ofcourse there are nuances to this as well) but pretty sure you’d agree that the game is already too much Blood Maiden co-op rounds tbh (perhaps can dial down a bit on that)
It wouldn’t be so bad if there weren’t so many duplicate rolls. Doesn’t help that many of these dupe rolls aren’t even a skill you use! If I had it my way, I’d fire my blacksmith immediately!
I always, always stop on the first roll with an affix I’m looking for. I don’t press for perfection, that’s when more dupes (of irrelevant affixes) occur.
I think there are ways to get the depth without the tedium. It’s definitely a tradeoff, but that doesn’t mean it’s fine to just introduce a thousand individual items you have to pick up and hang onto.
Perhaps, took me a while to think about this but the more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion:
It is IMPOSSIBLE to make the gameplay live and vivid and all the systems in it work as intended while HOLDING ON to a state of maximum conveniences
Really have to dial down on the “convenience” bits to make the game finally work (it is better to be engaged/annoyed at one thing at a time rather than delay that until the game finally gets in a state of total exhaustion)
I like the risk in tempering, but personally I don’t even care what the devs decide to do with it. It’s not that big of a deal for me. There are so many other things I want to see fixed or added to the game.
Players only raise the opinions to the Devs, but whether they change or not is up to them. But I still keep my opinion that tempering system without a return point is bad.
That completely kills your luck when you picked or bought an item with 3 GA before and then became trash in the hands of the Blacksmith…
