this is the correct answer
The free roll you get on the tempering should allow you to choose the temper you want at minimum value. Next you now get your random rolls which allows you to keep existing or swap for the random roll - repeat until out of rolls.
Lol you know let’s change MW to. Let me pick the stat I want to masterwork. No more RNG on what stat updates lmao. How baby do you want the game to be bro
Systems are fine how they are with the risk vs reward system currently
You may not like it but it’s a clever way to keep players playing and increase longevity if your not lucky first go
Ok. that’s your opinion, and I’m not going to make fun of you or belittle you for it. In a shocking twist its ok to not agree with someone. Moving on now.
It’s also ok for you to be wrong. Game would be boring and baby AF if they went down the path your asking.
It’s ok for you to be wrong too. Like I said, moving on.
Unfortunately I’m not wrong and thank god tempering isn’t going baby mode like you ask
Maybe create a genuine crafting system where you create items entirely from the ground up; craft a base item, add tempering affixes, masterwork it.
While ALL items that drop from monsters are fully tempered and masterworked from the start. With no way to alter that (you can still have 1 affix enchanting I guess).
The crafted items should have a lower potential than “perfect” dropped items, as in, be weaker. But with the benefit of being able to more directly shape the items to your need.
A crafting system like Grim Dawn or similar (or Monster Hunter), with intricate recipes, material needs etc.
So the progression path might be:
- Early endgame you especially use dropped items, since you dont have the materials needed for crafting items
- Mid endgame you especially use crafted items, since that allows you to get the stuff you “need”
- Late endgame you especially use dropped items, by finding those rare “perfect” items that outpace the best crafted items, while having all those affixes you “need”. Even in late endgame you might still use a few crafted items to fill holes in your affix needs, reaching hard caps, breakpoints etc. (to get the right amount of resistances, armor etc.).
As for still having ways to enhance (rather than craft) dropped items; Better socket system, aka. that old D4 runeword announcement. Trigger and effect systems to create your own legendary affixes
Tempering is the reason I haven’t played the game since about two weeks into S4. It’s awful. There was a sliver of hope they actually improved it, but the token effort did not change anything significant.
I check back every couple of weeks to see if a patch has changed anything about it and leave the same feedback.
Bricking is a terrible feeling. There’s nothing earned about it. It ruins the potential of every single drop you get by not simply delaying the gratification, but destroying the potential excitement. You found a way to take the core aspect of looter ARPGs and ruin it. The feeling of getting a fantastic drop is now tainted by “… if it doesn’t brick, which it probably will”.
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If they would simply remove the possibility of rolling the same thing multiple times in a row, it would probably fix allot of issues.
Rolling the same thing 5 times in a row until the item bricks, really makes me, and i know others feel the same way, just not want to play the F’ing game at all.
Hell forbid someone has a different opinion than yours. MOVING. ON.
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It needs tweaking and a presentation/UX refactor. But overall it is good.
Affix bloat got put in the players hands with tempering. Some of the temper manuals have stats that nobody would ever use and they are literally meant to water down the pool to make it harder to get your desired affixes to roll. Druid has some of the worst temper manuals you will ever see with 5 or 6 options available.
The system is overly punitive and the temper manuals need to be reworked. They need to get rid of the trash affixes that have no place in any build and organize the manuals to better enhance skills or status conditions that are applied. For instance you have a bleed manual with 4 options that can fit into any bleed build with clear tiers of options and not some mish mosh of things where half the choices are useless.
It can be a great system if they make it into the crafting system it is meant to be rather than the slot machine that it currently is.
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ryker isn’t looking so healthy these days. maybe a soy overdose?
Although people have complained a lot about weighting in Enchanting, costs, etc. Affixes have been shuffled around probably in part due to friction over Enchanting. It’s had its moments, and Blizzard has changed it over time. To your point though, they even put a gold cap on it.
More: one can adapt to Enchanting. For example, I never bother trying to roll CDR on anything. I assume it’s a waste of mats. “Right” or “wrong” it’s a strategy.
No such adaptation is possible with Tempering, because it’s a blind system, it operates independently of existing affixes on the item.
A goal should be to make each system (except pure gambling, obols) challenging but rewarding. If it uses up a meaningful amount of player’s time, it should give the player a bit more agency. That’s not the same as “infinite tries”.
Can answer that because I did find a perfect 3GA staff for my LS Sorc…
And after a serious offer of 4B gold, I decided to roll the dice and temper it. Worked out for me on the very last roll that I got the right stat.
I already had a descent staff, but I figured that I got a once in a year item, and I might as well use it on me.
But, on the other side, if it would have failed…would have been the worst feeling since I wasted the last couple 2GA items. Finding the item should be the reward, not after “successfully” gambling on getting the right temper.
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Yeah. The current system reminds me of this old poker tournament strategy where the player would just wait for one of a certain set of hands and then go all in, never call or make smaller bets. The idea was to steal small pots to make up for losing blinds and to win a good amount when called because you had a strong range.
The problem with both that strategy and with current tempering is that in order to generate frequent small wins you are also generating rare big losses. And the big losses are far more memorable than the small wins.
Good lord…
“Bricking” is fine. That’s life.
Just give Me and the Players the darned AGENCY and freedom to get Lucky from time to time, get the desired Affixes x2 on the first darned roll - KEEP THE CURRENT ROLL - and, here’s where agency comes in - Invest further and attempt to perfect the item.
I honestly cannot believe there’s a system in this game that when I get a “desired outcome” - I’m forced to be happy with a bare minimum roll when I have 5-7 ROLLS REMAINING!
I’m put in a position - in a game - where I’m faced with destroying my item if I want to perfect it.
The hell? Isn’t this supposed to be fun and crafting a “progressive” system of improving gear?
It’s bonkers that it does not work like Enchanting where I can keep my Affix and fish for a higher.
That.
Would.
Make Tempering so much BETTER!
& not break the game or be imba/op in any way shape or form.
Keep “bricking” chance.
No-Resets on Tempering.
Limited Tempering Attempts.
All good.
- Add: Keep Current Roll/Affix and let players use all these remaining Tempers they’re sitting on. That’s Crafting.
Not some blind crap shoot for X attempts and stop when you get the lowest possible value.
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This is probably the best idea I have seen that is a compromise with the Tempering system. You would still be annoyed with a Minimum Tempering roll and truly are gambling still but at least you do not have a Temper that could very well not benefit your build almost entirely. I still favor a more forgiving system given the rarity of GA items with the Affixes you need.
Yeah and I think part of that is trying to align the system better with the fantasy of “tempering”. That is, you are shaping and honing something that’s already there.
Like, imagine if each slot on a dropped item had an inherent category you had to select from. Then imagine the first time you tried a book it could fail to add any temper, but it would reveal some property that restricts the books you can choose, like “unstable” means you have to choose a stability book or “shocking” means you have to choose a book with shock in the name, etc. Then maybe you temper with one of those books and it reveals another property that narrows the rolls down to only 2 of the choices. So by the first or second roll you know if this item allows you to get the temper you want. And then you have more rolls at 50/50 to try to get the right one or to improve its roll.