wouldnt be bad if 2x+ ga were more common with good stats. the only time i get them though is life on hit or some garbage
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another thing the devs could add to the game is a rare mat that can be farmed. say on average takes someone 3-5 days to get one. this item can upgrade any item you have to add a ga to the current roll. this would still be a grind but now you could start with a base item temper it then upgrade it instead of farm for weeks to get a good base item and have it brick resulting in people quiting
1 - Tempering Durability should go away. Finding a GAIII let alone a GAII item is rare enough. Finding them with the right 2 or 3 Affixes is extremely Rare. Finding them for every item slot is nearly impossible without buying Gold and Trading.
2 - The system does not feel good and it doesn’t feel like I am crafting or making an item special. They just added another layer of RNG. It does not feel good early on in the journey when Legendary items are Rare enough just to find that fit your build and can get you to a very minimum entry level of the game (Maximum Elemental Resists, Maximum Armor, Boss Fights do not take 10+ minutes, you do not get one shot constantly).
3 - Tempering itself already rolls with a range on the Affix. It is hard enough to get the 2 Tempers you want, let alone decent rolls. You could completely remove Durability and it would take players some time to grind the mats to maximize the Temper rolls.
4 - Certain Affixes are not fun to gear for ever and need to be baked into the design of the items themselves. This includes Elemental Resists as much as Armor. Blizzard had an okay idea with having items that give you additional advantage past the soft cap for Elemental Resistances, but it shouldn’t work like it does now since content is mostly designed around these items (cough Tyraels Chest or a lesser extent, Tassets).
Get rid of individual Elemental Resistances. Call it Magic Defense and Armor → Physical Defense. The Hard Cap for both would be 85% DR and all Jewelry/Armor would have an inherent Physical and Magic Resistance on them to the point where you naturally cap them with your progression and with 925 items.
Both Magic Defense and Physical Defense should work the same way in that damage is dependent on the Enemy Level - up to a cap where it stops scaling. They should add in an Absorb function for Physical and Magic Defense. Tassets for example might provide you an Absorb reducing damage to whatever the last Element that affected you by 20%. Tyrael’s might generate a Barrier for a portion of Elemental Damage. This can also be pushed to Physical Absorb also which can generate Fortify, Heal for a portion etc.
5 - In addition to this, clean up some less than great Affixes like Life on Hit or Life per Second. +Healing is pretty much disregarded as well. The only “Temper” that are meaningful are Utility and Weapon Tempers that are Unique. I would rather see Unique powers be handled this way rather than Unique Armor/Weapons/Jewelry. Nothing worse than having to farm forever just to get say, a maximum Third Blade for it to be worthwhile - way too much RNG for stuff that enables builds.
Let us Reject an Affix for the rest of the tempering session. Most tempering manuals have 4 affixes, so if an regular item has 6 temper rolls, then it’s about a 75% chance of getting the 2 correct affixes on an item. Not high rolls. Just SOME roll.
You would still have a lot of items with minimum temper rolls and people would still seek out replacement items to try to get a higher temper. What this would stop is getting 5 of the same undesired roll on an item. That’s not challenging. It’s just dumb.
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Still seems easy to fix imo.
Move the affixes back to when the item drops.
You can still have tempering affixes, but the item simply picks 1 tempering category for the first affix and rolls something from that pool.
And then from another category for the second affix.
The end.
Or wait, no, there is more.
Get rid of skill specific tempers.
Merge all the “AoE Size” tempers into one (if you want some AoE skills to benefit less from it, then add a modifier to that skill, like “Skill X: 0.5 AoE Size coefficient”)
Merge all the double cast tempers.
And so on.
No skill specific affixes => much more likely to get something useful.
Obviously, also add a loot filter.
As for the trading issue, if they refuse to remove trading altogether, then they could at least make 3GA items untradeable for example.
Note: as long as tempering at an NPC exists, it must have limited charges. Otherwise it would be way worse than it is.
I personally think you should ne able to pick your tempers so its never a brick, however just make the range higher and more weighted to the lower end. An example would be you pick (increase crit strike damage 1% - 100%) and then just have rolls be more weighted lower end so its never useless but still rare for it to be that mega great item. Basically 75% of rolls would be 1-50% crit damage, 24% of rolls 51-90% crit chance, and then only 1% of rolls in the 91-100% crit chance.
What’s the negative to getting the stats that you want on an item? It still rolls between a value (low % → high %). Rerolling would still cost you money (and mats maybe) to re-roll. So what’s the down side there. You do it for MW. Why can’t that be applied to tempering.
Because you still roll for a value range and to land on the stat you want it’s not a guarantee. Not sure how you deduced it was a guarantee to get the roll you want. If you’re going to argue against guarantee then argue against it for MW too because it’s the exact same system. With the difference being you roll on a chance to improve a random stat already on an item. Which to me would make tempering something you do after you MW something to 12/12 to limit the affix pool to improve on.
But then you would still have a bricked item because of bad tempering RNG.
This is an interesting idea. Combined with a loot filter and more rare & powerful affixes on the dropped items, I think this could work. That said, finding that GA is a pretty exciting moment (until you look at the stats and see that it’s a pair of pants with Life per sec, Poison Res, and GA impairment reduction).
I mean, people do constantly complain about the cost of enchanting. I think enchanting should have a cap also (or at least a series of big cost jumps that give a signal it’s time to stop) and that it is a problem to allow it to infinitely reroll.
Having a healthy attitude towards it is good, but I think a crafting system should be about the excitement of what you get, rather than being about the disappointment of what you didn’t get.
Yeah, I have agreed with this take since the S4 PTR. But I also think they could do something more to make the current hit-or-miss books more interesting and less disappointing.
The real issue here is that getting the right tempering affix is so important that even a super rare and well-calibrated item for your build is worthless without the temper.
I think they could let you spend 4 resplendent sparks to get the blacksmith to add a specific pair of tempers to an item. You’d be better off just tempering most items normally, but you could at least have some way to guarantee a drop gets what it wants. That said, this is a dull, lazy way to solve it and I doubt that this kind of solution for the high-end most-godly drops is enough to make the system fun for people who currently dislike it.
Agreed.
The system breaks down and becomes 0 fun once you hit the gearing wall and even the drops of potential upgrades slow to a weak drip. When you are getting lots of drops of potential upgrades and your build hasn’t fully settled, the system is fun to interact with: you get some agency, you can probably still use an item that doesn’t give you what you need, and you can sometimes get exactly what you need and it’s a cool upgrade.
Yeah, this is similar to the idea above about having the GAs move to a single roll at the end of tempering, rather than dropping on the item. I think the biggest downside (aside from it being really fun to find GAs) is that you would lose the “loot filter” concept of only caring about GA items. Now, you would have to check every item for the stats you want because it could potentially get a GA.
I disagree - this is exactly when it does feel good. Plus, before that stage you can use rares and temper/imprint them.
Yes, but the difference between a min roll on a good temper and max roll is very minor compared to the difference between tempers. This is one of the biggest reasons the system generates complaints.
Hard disagree. Gearing for enabling stats can create an interesting puzzle to solve to make a viable build if it is not easy to gear for them. For example, imagine that a character with no skill/paragon points spent and no class abilities active needed to spend one affix slot on each piece of gear to cap armor and another one to cap resists. Getting 2 GA armor affixes could allow you to free up 1-2 armor affix slots for something else. Selecting class abilities or having a class that naturally gains a lot of armor or resist could free up even more. Building into those things with your class could potentially free all of them, but at the cost of whatever else you could have spent your class power on. This is way more interesting than just “equip all items at item level 925 to cap your defenses”.
Just add more stuff like Starlight aspect and Enduring Faith so that there are builds that care about those stats.
I think removing trading would be a problem for a lot of people and that it would be necessary to do that if the gear dropped with its tempering rolls intact. But I also think you could have an identify mechanic that could be used in your inventory, but that made the item account-bound. So you get your 3-affix unidentified drop and can trade it, but then you identify the two initial tempers for free right in your inventory. After than, you can temper it to try to improve them.
It means that you get a full set of perfect 0-GA items much faster, which means that you have that much more of a slog to find usable 1-GA items.
Yea so I guess it would address that as you’d only ever be tempering gear you want. Which also means it’ll never happen.
It’s not a slog to find usable 1GA items. More so now that horde has the guarantee chest.
So again, if opening tempering up to rerolling is a “guarantee temper which is bad” so is MW and being able to reroll to get an affix upgrade. Because it’s practically the same system (difference being adding an affix vs upgrading an exsiting affix).
tl;dr - this arugment is like screaming into a void.
Tempering needs some TLC but it’s close to good. Just need to stop rerolling the same affix in a row. I’ve bricked good items because I had 4 of the same affixes in a row and that’s frustrating.
I don’t like that tempering is double rng, for the affix you want and then trying to get that affix a high roll. It shouldn’t be the final boss on gear, masterworking should be. I would personally make it so you can pick what affix you want to temper on, but the roll stays rng,
The itemization in the game is already jacked. They might as well let you just slap bis affixes and rolls on everything at this point.
All gamble systems in games suck period, give me a way to earn said reward even if it takes longer
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For me, I want to pick up an item and go “Oh, it’s an upgrade. Yes!!!”.
Now it’s. Well it could be an upgrade. But only if I go through the terrible UI where I have to click a thousand times and get lucky.
Something along the lines an item have it’s 3 normal rolls plus two temper rolls. Where the temper roll would be a range of say 1 - 9. These could then be tempered at the blacksmith to the stat of your choice (maybe have some RNG in there to burn through mats or whatever. But no way to brick.)
So an item might be
80 mainstat
800 life
40 crit damage
5 temper
9 temper
You take it to the blacksmith and temper it and you will get a mid range roll and a max roll temper.
The key here is you can pick up an item and by looking at it decide if it’s worth keeping.
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Tempering is fine.
That’s another thing, maybe make a more competent blacksmith instead of this dude that only started yesterday and it’s locked behind defeating all the bosses and he will never roll the same stat back to back.
They will make the tempering unlimited in VoHm most probably. Now they are forced to gate every progression in the end game, because otherwise they won’t have player retention. So they gate the last masterworking mats behind the last 2 IH tiers that can be done only by 3-4 builds, that require ubers and they limit the tempering so that people will spent more time trying to reach the builds that the streamers play. Once they add more content in VoH they will be free to remove the gating mechanics, as there will probably be more content to retain the players.
And on the campfire chat just before S6, they will once again mask this behaviour behind “we heard you and we are removing the tempering limits and are buffing the mats”, whereas they are not, they heard it for the last 2 season and did nothing, because they don’t want to lose the players. Every time the same story over and over again.
Right now it’s not because you can start finding them before you have perfected your normal items. Even so, it’s hard to find something good if you’ve gotten good items. Like I have an ammy with move speed, +2 to an important passive, and attack speed on it. It got good tempers with decent rolls. Finding an item with better stats could happen, but replacing that passive is tough and it’s extremely rare to find it on anything (I literally haven’t found another 0-GA ammy with it). So it will be a long time before I find an ammy worth upgrading to. If I’d had worse luck with the tempers, then I might have reason to upgrade to something without the passive but with better tempers and higher rolls on move speed (my ammy also isn’t 925). That would mean that I’m still interacting with that slot occasionally.
Still, it was fun to hit the right tempers on such a good item. But with every drop you find that is way above curve, you also get the downside of it being very hard to find a better one. That doesn’t mean it’s fun to brick an above-curve item. But overall, because you are sometimes bricking those items, you are also getting more opportunities to upgrade, and that is more fun.
Well, again, I think that enchanting should be limited so that there’s an endpoint to it. MW is different, though, because all it does is increase the numbers. If you changed it so that the 4th and 5th affixes dropped on the item and all tempering did was to let you reroll their numbers, I’d be fine with that being unlimited. Same with enchanting - if all you could do is reroll the same affix, then the unlimited nature would be fine (if costed properly).
Do you feel the same way about item drops? And if not, what is the difference?
So this is a separate take, but I do think there’s some argument to be made that the tempering - enchanting - masterworking system is fine as a crafting system, but there should also be a “pick it up and just wear it” system that avoids all those things. Like uniques but you can’t even masterwork them, they just are what they are (maybe you can imprint them).
I really hope not.
Tempering is a trash way to keep player retention, it may work for some but after bricking 3 of my perfect rolls (it is 100% weighted idgaf what anyone says, and I always wait until I have 3 of an item to temper). Time for black myth wukong. The problem is blizzard doesn’t understand their player base and develop the game for their maxroll/streamer buddies who are no lifers who play 14 hours a day. 99.9% of the players don’t play more than 4 hours a day. But keep developing a game for the .01 percent and wonder why your community hates you.