D3 did it better in many ways

PC General Discussion
166

I honestly feel they are making all the same mistakes they made when D3 came out.

“nightmare” and such difficulties
No Torments, just this bastardized “world tier” stuff
No end-game… just “repeat game”
no item sets
no auction house (not that I liked the AH at all, but that’s how D3 was before they implemented the RMT AH which was hilarious)
Lack of classes, etc.

It’s like they went backwards to Diablo 2 instead of building on 3 without the influence of a game that’s probably 30+ years old by now.

167

I think companies are too comfortable releasing unfinished products nowadays, I expect a game to be good on release, not a year later.

2 Likes
168

People aren’t complaining about D4 needing QoL. They are complaining about issues that are resolved by putting in even an iota of effort, they just don’t want to put in the time because they are so used to D3 where gear was just spoonfed to you. The irony is that you honestly think people that are ok with it now very much knowing those QoL will come, because its only been a GD week since its released, are the ones who will be here still while those complaining are going to go off to the next thing b/c they complain and leave to go cry somewhere else.

169

Nothing makes me want to listen to someone less than “d3 veteran player”.

170

I always wonder at what point of D3 they are a ‘veteran’ of.

D3 at launch was actually challenging and pushing through Inferno difficulty was not easy.

Ever since D3 started ‘seasons’ and with every season, they kept scaling the damage modifiers and effects of sets/legendaries so absurdly high that everyone got used to the braindead gameplay of getting handed free sets then spamming rifts faster than sonic the hedgehog with zero challenge. It only takes a few days to fully complete conqueror at a SLOW pace.

171

The game is good on release, your expectation that any and all things should be planned and released without patches is a asinine mentality. Content comes over time to enrich a game. You people have this expectation that everything should come all at once and then not touched. You know how quickly people would lose their minds if nothing was ever added. This isn’t the 80-90s, games come out complete and then content is added through its lifespan. You want to go back to when you waited years and then bought “content” patches labeled as sequel to the original?

172

Lack of classes?? You sure you wanna roll with that one, chief?? Because I have 25 years of Diablo games that launched with 3, 5 and 5 respectively to throw at you.

173

I always laugh at this, if loot was spoonfed to you, how many primals did you have last season?

1 Like
174

(Unless you were a demon hunter using the dark ball lightning variant)

175

Thats a nice disingenuous comment. How about asking how long it took you to gear to be able to run GRifts to try and farm for them.

176

Grifts literally started at hard difficulty not torment, thats like saying “How geared do you have to be for dungeons in D4?”

You could start Grifts as soon as you hit level cap, the same concept applies to NM’s

177

It did get better with RoS and Loot 2.0, I remember how punishing Inferno was and how broken the loot system was that it pushed people to the Auction House which we all now know it ended, D3 was very crappy at launch but it got so much better. Now that I was able to play D2R and its fresh in my mind, I was able to make a fair comparison and appreciate some of the fine improvements D3 had. D3 got a lot of hate because it was not D2.5

1 Like
178

D3 was fun at launch, but lacked content and was clearly itemized around the RMAH. D4 is just not fun.

2 Likes
179

But that is the constant case you have got this small minority that wanna relive their childhood, thou D2 is quite a crappy outdated game in today´s time and nothing revolutionizing about it. Its weird they would release D4 without the improvesment D3 went through in it cycle, but an game suffering from similar baby diseases we now have to wait to improve.

180

You can’t just keep saying “they’ll patch it” as justification for the game being rough as hell right now. We’re judging the game AS IS not “as it might be in a few months”.

I hope they do patch it. I hope the game improves. But I’m not gonna withhold criticism and pretend it’s a 10/10 game simply because you have extraordinarily low expectations.

The game has issues. Some more serious than others. If you can’t accept and admit that? That’s a you problem.

2 Likes
181

Now, yes D2 is old, but D2R proved that even 20 year later the game stands the test of time and there is still a very solid market for remastering old classics (except you Warcraft 3 Reforged, you f’ed up). D2 is a fine game and is still very fun to play even to this day, Hell I still have my old save files from Diablo 1 and I swear by anything that is holy or unholy that nothing captures the atmosphere of D1, not even the highly regarded D2.
Vanilla D3 faced a LOT of backlash but got better, I can only hope D4 improves and that it improves fast.

182

Why would anybody compare D4 to D3 at launch? They are games made by the same company. They should have learned from mistakes made in their own games. Frankly as a AAA development company they also should be learning from their competitors. Why the inventory in D4 is so horrible is beyond any understanding.

2 Likes
183

D3 was absolutely NOT the better of the two at launch.

Yea, RMAH was a HORRIBLE IDEA, but you know what was worse? 99% of rares being better than ANY legendary… AND finding 1 or 2 legendaries A WEEK, that were utter garbage.

Another HORRIBLE design issue, was the difficulty scaling, which was two fold mind you. First and foremost was the ridiculous scaling of enemy damage, to which a trash bug(the stinger) could TWO SHOT you in the 2nd difficulty. Then you had the issue of melee VS range. Melee had NO survivability, despite melee being in the monsters faces, they died just as quickly as the ranged classes. Even after they “fixed” the difficulty scaling of mobs. So then they had to buff barb and monks by giving them a flat 25% damage reduction. It was STILL kind of rough at that point, since you had to sacrifice dps for survivability.

Then you had the art style, which Jay Wilson openly mocked fans about complaining about the colorful style by adding in a rainbows and unicorns secret level.

D3 connectivity was trash and the queues were BAD. I didnt get more than a few hours in for the first 3 days. Every day for the first week had a 20-45min queue, assuming the servers were even up.

D3 story was meh AT BEST.

Seriously, I highly contend anyone rooting for D3 here was there for launch, furthermore, OP admitted himself, that he was comparing D4 to the state of D3 NOW. Since D4 made plenty of COMPLETELY different design choices(which do need som ironing out) lets compare the development time.

D3 started in 2001. Wasn’t released until 2012. Got RoS in 2014 which many see as “fixing the game.” Got necromancer patch in 2017, and got plenty of updates in between all of that and even up until just a few months ago. Thats 22 years of “development.”

D4 was in development for about 6-7 years, and has been released for 12 days so far.

Hell of a comparison to make, truly.

The biggest issue they need to conquer right now is giving the player more power as you level, not less.

184

D2 remake really only proves that companies can make a quick buck off nostalgia, games like that require very little work as the groundwork is already there, and there are enough people that will spend money to relive said nostalgia. But those games you can’t make money off of them after release as its just a nostalgia trip that also requires few people to keep it up. Trying to establish that as a means to make future games is extremely short sighted. As much as you want to take some player input, a lot of it is utter trash by a vocal minority that don’t want anything to change. Most of the time they think they know what they want, but they don’t, at least not in the long run. Games like that peak at launch and fall off hard.

If you want sustainability, you have to create something new or update the gameplay and build upon past systems that worked. A lot of these people complaining want a literal copy of what worked in the past without any innovation. Blizzard would do well to ignore those people.

This isn’t an issue when you actually level. People are just rushing to get to torment that they get there and feel weak because technically they shouldn’t be there until they are close to 70. I got there a 62 and it was rough, even with everything upgraded. Once I reached 70, its a lot smoother and I am more comfortable with doing higher keys. The issue is people rushing then thinking they are weak, yeah you are weak, you’re trying to skip ahead without putting in any work. Thats what happens when you get carried.

185

I’m still doing campaign, but the bigest problem is leveling and level gating.
They made a big open world for us to explore, with so many side quests to do, strongholds to “conquer”, i got out Act1 did some quests in Act2 and the monsters are level caped at 50, so usable gear stopped dropping, everything is pure garbage, that is terrible design for an arpg game when character power is tied to gear. And leveling slowed down considerably.

Now i wish until the player finished the campaign, they should have just disabled other territories, hide side quests, dungeons and strongholds, because as of right now, they punish players for doing the content, which is again terrible design. This open world mmo like feeling really messed up the leveling or just they did it wrongly.

Not to mention the terrible map, where they just randomly reveal big portions of the map, just to confuse players so much easier to miss things, because the player can’t keep track everything where he was, or where didn’t go yet.

At least D3 campaign pacing and experience was much better playing on normal difficulty (even at launch), and they cheaped out on cinematics too.