majority actually dont even interact with forums. majority are playing the game and not complaining here
Tempering could be made better easily.
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This is an incorrect thought process. Sure, the majority of players don’t post on the forums. So what? That does not mean that most people are happy with the current Tempering system. There have been tons of customer service studies that show that for every person who actually complains, MANY more have the same complaint but they just don’t report it. One study put it at 1 to 26, i.e. for every person complaining, there are 26 others who have the same complaint. Despite its defenders, the number of Tempering complaints seen on the forums IS a pretty good indication that most people don’t like one or more aspect of the current system.
I’ve seen tons of complaints and proposed solutions. Personally, I’d like to see some protection against rolling the same affix five times in a row, and I wouldn’t mind gating additional Temper rolls > 5 behind a material along the lines of the rarity of a scattered prism (or a little rarer). But IMO the one thing Blizzard should absolutely do, which is something everyone seems to agree on is simply having a no-change option like Enchanting has.
I say the majority does use the forums. Can’t prove me wrong now can you?
See the problem in ignoring basic logic to fit your bias/opinion?
Obviously millions of people don’t use this forum. But I think it’s more than reasonable that of those who do, you can derive some information of the whole. Noting it won’t be perfect and might be within a standard deviation.
Impossible unless you are blizzard to get perfect statistics. But we use what we can.
No one is playing this game. It’s literally on life support. They cant risk alienating the few people who are playing. I’d argue this is the opposite of what they should do though. Fire the designers, bring in new people, and completely redesign items, skills, and paragons. Literally, the entire game needs a massive face lift. It’s insanely bad.
Edit: I’ve played every game in the franchise upon release, each for thousands of hours (Minus D4 - maybe 75 hours). I bet I have personally played these games more than most of the dev team combined. It’s that painfully obvious how lacking the design team is. They are freaking clueless. If you are their boss, it is time to fire these people. They ruined a franchise. Hire people who actually understand the franchise.
I’m not a game designer by trade, but I guarantee you I could personally design every aspect of this game to be better than it turned out without much trouble. It’s glaringly bad by design.
Ok.
Take the time and count the number of individuals complaining about tempering in the forums.
The most active tempering threads have fewer than a couple hundred responses; that includes repeat responses and responses favoring the temper system. The majority of those thread are comprised of the same people over and over, both complainers and defenders.
This very thread has only has 45 individual users posting and a good portion of them are defending the tempering system.
OP only got 42 likes. (Coincidentaly that is the same number of likes the thread ‘Tempering is good as is’ receieved).
Multiply that by 26 and then compare to the number of people that actively play ( several hundred thousand).
The forum is tiny. The number of active participants even smaller. And it is comprised from the most passionate, loney, trolley, bored (and most likely older) segmet of players in the game.
The majority of people that interact with D4 simply play the game and have fun.
In the end the devs will tweak tempering without a doubt, it’s a first pass and like everything else in this game is going to get some tuning.
Actually, the forums don’t proportionately represent the opinions of the true player base. Generally it’s only people that are unhappy with the game or have some issue come here. Players who are happily playing the game don’t come here.
It’s basically the definition of confirmation bias. Kinda like how people don’t generally take their car in to get fixed if its not broken.
And how do you know that the forums are not representative? I would argue they are representative and have less confirmation bias.
See the problem is we just don’t know at the end of the day. Your guess is as good as mine on this.
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I agree that the tempering system is pretty bad in its current form. It just needs some tweaking and like 2x the number of rerolls. I’m tired of bricking rare GA drops with perfect base stats because the crappy RNG wants to give me the same temper roll five times in a row (with a 1 in 5 chance to begin with) for a skill I’m not even using. It’s just bad.
After bricking three items tonight, I think it moved into my top slot for most hated “feature”, right after one-shot mechanics. After the third one, I just closed the game and decided I wasn’t going to waste any more of my time.
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if anything let us pay to reset tempers like with masterworks.
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looks to be about 50/50
If it’s another layer of RnG, you’re lying to yourself saying you have control over it - RnG is RnG and you have no control over it.
I can admit and respect you like the system as is. But layers on top of layers on top of layers of RnG is not a good system and punishes the players way more than it rewards them. Tempering to me is a good idea wrongly implemented. The game has too much RnG imo, and you spend more time farming for gear and gold, then pushing. With this system you’re kind of stuck with one char and one build (speaking about average players of course, which are the majority of the player base), which makes you not want to play the game eventually because you know the amount of grind and RnG you have to go through to have a cool char to blast content with.
Nothing you said is true in reality, and represents only your perception. There is zero functional difference between 5 affixes rolling randomly and 3 affixes rolling randomly and then 2 rolling randomly but partially targeted in terms of “layers”.
You do have some control over the RNG, by limiting the scope of affixes that are possible to roll in the last 2 slots you are massively more likely to get a desired outcome given a base 3 affixes in the first place. This has the precise effect that it was desired to have, which is that Blizzard was able to reduce the overall amount of loot dropping and increase the relative chance for each piece of loot to be worth picking up and having it be potentially useful to you.
It is particularly good for casual players, because it is particularly easy to get average gear that allows you to complete all the content in the game outside of much higher pit tiers, which are not massively important for character progression. Getting a character to a high level of power has never been easier than it is right now, and tempering is a large part of the reason for that. It might be harder to get the best of the best, all affixes perfect gear, but even that is questionable given the sheer volume of affixes available in the past. And, even if this part was true, the fault is overwhelmingly related to the existence of greater affixes, not tempering - in the context of what makes a perfect item hard to get, it is much, much more the fault of getting the right greater affixes on the item in the first place than it is landing the right temper on it - you just blame the temper because it’s the last step.
I can “admit and respect” that you don’t like the system as it is, but none of your reasons are based in fact; they are all feelings that you have that aren’t informed by the reality of the system in question.
I’m sure there’s more players that think current state tempering sucks, so majority wins this debate. It’s a fantastic idea with a huge flaw in it’s current state of the game.
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I think nothing you said is true… If you have another RnG system, then you lose control over what it’s applying the RnG into. It’s like saying I can target farm Uber Bosses for Uber Uniques. Sure, you can, but it’s still RnG and you have lots of people complaining they don’t got theirs. For instance, I farmed Uber Bosses since they were introduced into the game. I didn’t farm 1000, but I must’ve have farmed around 350 or so. Only this season have I gotten my first ever Uber Unique.
RnG is RnG, there’s a probability of getting things, you’re kidding yourself if you think you have control over that. I can temper something that’s a 1 in 4 chance, yes, you’re right, but that’s no control, because you still have a 1 in 4 chance. And this system is everything but not good to casuals, because you don’t temper any item. You temper an item with at least 2 good affixes. Then you temper the item, then you reroll the third affix, and then you masterwork it. This the best way to get the desired item, not tempering it last, so I don’t blame tempers for what you said, I blame this system for only giving you 7 chances to temper 2 things you need, which doesn’t give you room to even try and get the max tempers you can get - so this system is not well implemented at all. Also, you have stats in places where they don’t belong (vulnerable damage for rogues for instance, is in cuttthroat…) and you have tempers with 1 in 3 chance, 1 in 4 chance, and 1 in 5, so yeah, good system here where you only have 7 chances, no matter what you need or where it’s at. So, again, please try to explain how a system like this, which punishes players a lot more then rewards them, that makes you lose countless hours farming for gear so you can brick lots of pieces at ease, is a good system for casuals? How is this particularly good for casuals? And I’m not even talking about items with GA’s, or the amount of times and gold you need to reset masterworking to get what you need.
You talk about the sheer amount of affixes in the past. That is better now, but it’s still a lot of them. Good luck trying to reroll an affix into more numbers of skills for instance - which is the most desired affix now. You can spend millions and millions of gold and not get what you need, so in this matter, this is still broken, and not casual friendly at all.
I really don’t understand how you can infer I’m basing my explanations on feelings, or that I’m not informed about the system based on my answer, but you do you. I’m giving you facts and I’m explaining why people, the majority of people, don’t like this system. If you say it’s my feelings only, so be it. Still doesn’t make it a good system.
This is like saying “everything is 50 50, you either get it or you don’t”. The fact that it’s still hard to get uber uniques doesn’t mean it’s not significantly easier than it used to be.
Again; “rng is rng” is an example of extreme oversimplification of a demonstrably easier system than before (easier in terms of getting, on average, better gear). It’s a restatement of “every chance is 50 50, you get it or you don’t”. No, rng is not rng - different chances and subsets of potential outcomes vastly change the likelyhood of a particular end result.
The fact that you can’t temper endlessly for the perfect roll on a given temper has such a minimal impact on the vast majority of players it is functionally a non-issue; rolling the correct temper confers the vast majority of power for a given temper. As I said; for people who are completely min-maxing, it might be harder than before, but for casual players it is far, far easier.
It doesn’t make you lose countless hours farming any more than rolling a bad affix on an item with 4 good affixes did in the past. However, because the last two affix slots are functionally target farmed, the chance of going from a 3-affix item to a 5-affix item now compared to getting a full desired affix item in the past is monumentally more likely. It’s not even close.
It’s not broken because something is still harder than something else. The same as before; you look for an item that starts with +skills and roll the item around it. The same as before, getting a +skill item with other desirable stats is a “chase item”. Unlike before, it is now more likely that when you do see such an item, it will then become an item you actually want to use because tempering is more likely to finish the item desirably than randomly adding the last 2 affixes was.
You are. You’re not explaining facts, you’re explaining your perception, which is definitionally and demonstrably not evidenced by the facts.
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I will keep posting this in every thread complaining about tempering.
Tempering is fine as it is now, no extra rolls, no resets. Just remove the weighted rolls. That’s it.
Your right. We are playing a different game. Many of us don’t cheapen our experience but selling or buying items.
Where is the item journey that was talked about? When we find a good item the item is supposed to grow with us. Tempering as it is now is a chance on a chance and final. No changing with builds or growing and developing a journey. It’s set it and forget it or most likely just trash it because it didn’t work out.
well, it’s a pity that for a minority like you there is no special ssf-type league, this is basically the gold standard of all arpgs for today, hopefully they will be introduced soon, although it may not make sense from the point of view of % online, i think they should do it.
tempering needs to change
im ok with the chance to brick a 1ga
but 2 and 3ga should have more attempts and rechargeable attempts respectively
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