Bricking items needs to go

[Skagrim-21667]

Bricked? So you cant play the game at all? Because thats what bricked means.

[HILIO-11827]

This is what we call gaslighting. You are a narcissistic troll and of absolutely no use to anyone.

[Skagrim-21667]

Okay, i respect your opinion. But iam not wrong. You are salty because you dont get what you want the first time around. Imagin that in another game. Imagine going into a wow raid and everyone gets the item they want from each boss.

[Latimere-1192]

@Arx-11884

@Latimere-1192

You say that with boosted drop rates in a ptr. In reality, I dont think it has reduce the amount of items you need to look at at all. I think you will have to look at the same amount because there is no filter. You still need to check each one for the rolls, then check each ong again for multiple temps and then check em again for masterworking. IMO it sounds like you will be looking at a lot more and wasting a lot more time in town.

I’ve been having to look at way less, even with the boosted drop rates. Never need to look at yellows at all and for legendary drops once they update the UI to where you can tell which ones have GA at a glance we’ll only need to look at those.

You never need to check your drops for tempering or masterworking so not sure what you mean by that. That’s an interactive process you do when you find an item you want to upgrade.

Ok so you dont check your item to see how your craft went or if it is an actual benefit to you? Ya ok, go try to sell that story to someone who might believe it. If you are crafting something YOU WILL check it to see how it crafted. By the way a “GLANCE” is still checking the item.

@Burninator-1589

@Latimere-1192

In reality, I dont think it has reduce the amount of items you need to look at at all. I think you will have to look at the same amount because there is no filter.

No you definitely look through less items. Before you would have to look through both rares and legendaries. Now it’s just legendaries and once your base gear is sorted you only need to grab items with GA on them.

As for not looking at rares, THIS IS THE EXACT SAME AS BEFORE. You would get to a point you no longer check rares. They simply became vendor trash.

@Shivera-1883

@Latimere-1192

then check each ong again for multiple temps and then check em again for masterworking.

Why am I checking each item for tempering and masterworks, when the item drops with none of those innately?

The only thing I care about when I find an item is:

1. Greater Affixes

And since 1) doesn’t appear on Rares, I will reach a point where I don’t care about those Rares anymore.

From there, it’s just examining the Legendary for 2/3 (or 3/3) desired stats, and utilizing the Enchant feature.

So rares get treated just like before, gothcha. Froim there you STILL examine each legendary for the GA so you are STILL INSPECTING THE ITEM. Nothing has changed.

@Skagrim-21667

Okay, i respect your opinion. But iam not wrong. You are salty because you dont get what you want the first time around. Imagin that in another game. Imagine going into a wow raid and everyone gets the item they want from each boss.

I am afraid you are and clearly here to troll and cause discourse.

[Skagrim-21667]

I asked a question if bricked means that the items cant be used anymore. Because the word actually means that. You said i am gaslighting because i asked a question. I dont know in what world your public opinion cant be challanged but that is not healthy.

You want the game to be super easy and fast. I get that. I dont want to be done with a season in 5 days. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?

And while we are here explaining words: What you are doing is gaslighting btw. But i dont care, because iam not 5 years old.

You are qutoe awnsering four people. Everyone of them must be wrong and your opinion is the only right one, correct?

[Nuggle-2877]

They just want perfect items from the get go, even if they loudly claim they don’t.

[Latimere-1192]

And you and Skagrim just want to troll and cause drama even if you claim you don’t. Clearly obvious.

[Skagrim-21667]

You are in a public forum. If discussion is “drama” for you, i suggest finding a different place where nobody can challange your opinion.

[Nuggle-2877]

If you can’t stomach ppl not agreeing with you, then you should not interact with others.

[Shivera-1883]

@Latimere-1192

So rares get treated just like before, gothcha.

So in current live game you don’t look at your rares for 4/4 BiS pieces? Because that’s exactly what everyone does. You are either lying or trolling. I’ll let you decide.

With the PTR loot changes, Rares eventually become obsoleted to the point where they are only looked at as salvage. That’s in stark contrast to the live game and vastly cuts down on loot/town time.

But if you want to play sub-optimally, you do you.

[Latimere-1192]

@Nuggle-2877

If you can’t stomach ppl not agreeing with you, then you should not interact with others.

There is a difference between civil disagreements and the trolling you two have done. If you guys can’t tone down being fanboys so much that your so hurt when people criticize your favorite game that you have to lash out and negatively troll people to try and defend Blizzards honor, then you may need to step away and get out of your parents basements and go outside for a while.

[MageCraft-1617]

@Skagrim-21667

I asked a question if bricked means that the items cant be used anymore. Because the word actually means that.

Technically - ANY item is useable.
Whites, Blues, Rares - imprinted and clean, Legendary items - with or without ideal Aspects as well as any old Unique.

Heh I swear some people play that way too with some of the in-game profiles I’ve seen…put any old thing on!

As for “Bricked” and not to grasp at straws or debate “useable vs serviceable vs ideal vs optimal vs GG” - I think we’re all well aware of those definitions and the parameters within which each of the item Tiers/Ratings would fall.

What I personally consider a “Bricked” Item:
1st: I’m Playing Frozen Orb.
Let’s assume I have a GAII with GG 2/3.
I enchant and get Ideal 3rd Affix.
I then Temper this amazing item.
I roll First - Offensive, get lucky and keep it.
I roll Frost - I get: Ice Bolt Ice Bolt Ice Shards Ice Bolt Ice Bolt Blizzard
That’s 6 of my potential 7 rolls and my 1st roll went to the 1st Recipe. Durability exhausted.
Do I change my build or write this otherwise amazing item off as a failure?

I mean - YES it will “work” but the Tempering that DEFINES my Build is not possible anymore.
Therefore, the item, while quite nice for another build, is no different than finding the wrong Unique item or not having a proper Aspect for a particular Build.

Is the “Item” Bricked? Technically - no.
Is the Item “Bricked” for my build? Absolutely - yes.
That’s how I define - “Bricked”

Now it’s farm for dozens and dozens more hours with hope and that I get another amazing item that I can gamble on…

Sure we’ll have run of the mill and totally serviceable random items with 2/3 or GAI - that wise players will Masterwork to Tier 4 and stop, reserving Masterworking to 8 for ideal and optimal items and Masterworking 12 for optimal and GG items.

The Tempering Durability and rng fail/pass lotto is, currently about as mediocre as the gear that many many failures will invariably force us to use.
GG GAIII items and optimal/GG GAII items are going to be very, very rare.
This is what many are not grasping.
There’s NO “Win button” at play here.

Let the unwise waste materials(TIME) on constant Tempering Resets and Mastwerworking Tier 12 + Resets on mediocre gear. Who cares… I certainly won’t waste Mats/TIME on that nonsense. “Fine Tuning” a plain 3/3? No way in hell. My TIME is precious.

MY concern is the proverbial “Bricking” of very rare, high end items for no reason other than arbitray, not so good, design decisions.
Time Sinks
NOT
Time WASTES
Currently Tempering and to a degree, Masterworking, is a Time Waste design more than it’s a Time Sink design.

[Skagrim-21667]

I get that but i have to disagree. A % boost to output is not the same as changing a white item out for a yellow or for a legy. Nor is it the same as missing an aspect, which potentially enables the build in the first place.

When you start with a level 1 character, you are switching your white items out for blues, yellows or even legendaries. Do you look at those items and say “well its yellow but it doesnt have alle the stats i need so i wont switch out”. No you dont, you take what you get which has at least some use for you. Same principal is applied here.

What iam trying to say the whole time is: The item is useable. It is not bricked. It is not perfect, yes. So your frozen orb not casting twice with a 30% but with a chance of 17% because you only have it on one of your weapons means just a little bit less output. You still can go and farm another item and try again. Same goes for frost nova size. of 3 items you have 2 items with frost nova size. So its smaller but you still will be able to clear the same Pit tier as before. You are placing so much worth on gear beeing perfect to play the game. This is not the case. Also, and i mean that with no hard feelings towards anyone here, it seems a lot of people want this perfect gear without having to play the game for more than 10-20 hours. This i also understand. There are players, most of players i think, that cant invest a lot of time into games. Thats why this system is so brilliant. Its the sweetspot between Casual and Hardcore (not the mode) players. You can use items very fast, you have a free temper on each item and so on but if you want to put the time into it you can. Why take that away so you have 90% increased frost nova size instead only 55% at day 2 of the league?

I belive the system is good as it is. The only thing i dont like that much is the failing on Masterworking but since there is a pitty system and you can get the materials fairly easy, it shouldnt be that big of a deal and gives a bit more chase.

Edit: Forgot to awnser to your last points at the bottom of your post, sorry.

Time waste for one person is time sink for another. Its hard to say, but again, i see where you are coming from.

[MacroNinja-1569]

Hmm…let me play devil’s advocate here.

1. I think finding or enchanting into 3/3 legendary with zero greater affix is actually pretty good so far. This is because some enchant slots e.g. the +life one on weapons only have a small handful of affixes so it’s easy and fast to re-roll. In practice, I thinking having three compariable legendaries to start tempering is not that difficult.

2. So the real rick is the scenario of saying we found a 2x or 3x greather affix item. This is clearly incredibly rare. On small sample set, I’d say a 1x GA is 1/200, 2x GA is like 1/600, and 3x GA…maybe 1/1500 or 2000? Very rough approximation given the drops I’ve seen boosting alts.

Maybe these items shouldn’t even exist in the game because they are too powerful. They are clearly intended to be the true ubers, heard of to exist but never seen except by a few blessed with RNGesus.

So I think yeah, maybe the devs DO want to 'brick these items, weakening them with a bad tempered roll.

Non devil’s advocate…just give everyone a super high reset cost to re-temper. Make it like 100 stygian stones or something. I pick stygian stones because there will clearly be a surplus of these mats, they come from the pit which is where crafting mats come from.

[MageCraft-1617]

Well said.
I’m personally under no illusions that I will be a “Rob” or even in the top 20% of any given player metric. Probably lower.

Therefore - I am not seeking “Perfection” nor do I have the time nor stamina to invest the time in chasing it.
I’ve used plenty of perfectly fine items in this game that while they could be better, I’m cool with them.
This won’t change.
Of course we “progress” through the phases of gear acquisition, usage and upgrades - that’s not even truly part of the conversation - until we get to end-game.

Regardless I have an idea that might be palatable to ALL crowds in this Tempering Debate.
It has to do with Durability based upon the Tier of the items themselves… I should run it by you here first.
Lmk if you want to hear it

[Skagrim-21667]

I think i know where this is going and i personally like this. So higher item power = more tempering rolls i assume?

[Cyranis-1116]

@Skagrim-21667

You are placing so much worth on gear beeing perfect to play the game. This is not the case. Also, and i mean that with no hard feelings towards anyone here, it seems a lot of people want this perfect gear without having to play the game for more than 10-20 hours.

You are arguing semantics and being pedantic. You understood the usage by the context. It seems like all you really want to do is push your silly gripe about how back in your day … blah blah nobody cares and derail the conversation.

Just stop…

[MageCraft-1617]

@Skagrim-21667

I think i know where this is going and i personally like this. So higher item power = more tempering rolls i assume?

Yes exactly.
So we have 4 Item Tiers currently.

1. Legendary - Plain
2. GAI
3. GAII
4. GAIII

My idea is the following - this should satisfy pretty much everyone AND require lots of material grinding, gold etc.

So the baseline is 7 Rolls. 2 Free and 5 vs 5 Durability.
Plain Legendary Items = 7 Standard Rolls.
GA I Items = 7 Standard + 1 Reset for 7 Rolls = 14 total (or 12 without the 2 “free”)
GA II Items = " " 2 Resets = 21 Rolls (or 17 without the 4 “free”)
GA III Items = " " 3 Resets = 28 Rolls (or 22 without the 6 “free”)
NOTE = If too much I removed the (“Free Rolls”) from further Resets.

Been working this issue over in my head trying to find some middle ground to accommodate & appease everyone - Players from both sides AND the Devs themselves who want a Time Sink and RNG attached to this.

Lmk what you think.

[Skagrim-21667]

as i said, i like this very much. The amount of rolls is a bit too high for my taste >_> but yes, i am for this!

[Cyranis-1116]

Or … they could just up the drop rate if whatever they land on seems too restrictive. Instead of adding more or less unlimited re-rolls.