Biggest unrealized problem - Excessive Cadence

Played for 20 minutes yesterday to remind myself of what’s going on. Superficially I think the game is very well-made. The graphics, environment, animations, details, sounds, user interface, vibe/immersion quality, lack of gameplay clunkiness, it’s all there. The good side of Blizzard lives on. It’s even fun playing for a bit. Then you realize that’s the game, an attractive but hollow husk, like a lifeless anime waifu doll.

Diablo IV is actually, and unfortunately, defined by an unending simple cadence. What does that mean? It means you all know what your characters do. You also know that no matter what the environment is you will do that exact same thing. Your actions are limited and regularly and rigidly repeated, to the point of relying on one spammable button for much of your gameplay.

Why did seemingly other simple games like Tetris or Mario succeed to provide entertainment over a long period of time? Why is League of Legends still so popular? First person shooter games? I think it’s because they have more varied cadences. Diablo IV is so reliant on walking through everything spamming a few actions that all that effort into getting so much right recedes into the background. It’s like playing Tetris with the same shapes coming in the same order. It’s like playing Mario if the screen always scrolled to the same section you just went through. All the games I have mentioned that have passed the test of time have gameplay variability in common despite having comparably simple basics. Players don’t necessarily articulate this but they do experience it. The control basics do not translate into a mind-numbing simple cadence that never ends or varies. An essential part to having fun in gaming is being forced to react, overcome a challenge, and be rewarded or frustrated in succeeding or failing to do so. The actions of players have to matter. In this game the actions of players don’t really matter because they simply get repeated over and over. That is the abysmal gameplay failure of Diablo IV, which some misinterpret as a strength, underlying the limited appeal and dissatisfaction with the game. It’s a cancer on the entire genre that no one really diagnoses as such.

As far as I can see there are three options. The first one, the most likely one, is doing what you’re doing going through the motions like the players. You have your own ideas, you implement their ideas, it doesn’t matter in the end. The game is mediocre at best, bad at this point like nearly two years since release. It’s the road to Diablo V, by which time the hope is that magically some source of innovation emerges - it might as well be AI given no person seems to have a clue. Option two, developers and decision-makers actually sit down and consider the question, “Why is the game bad, and can we actually target the bad quality?” It’s pretty common now for players to express frustration with lack of difficulty and number boosting in the Pit to simulate difficulty without making the game any more fun to play. How can you possibly, working with what you have, make the game challenging in any sort of reactive or variable manner so that your players stop eating their boogers while they play? Can you do that? Imo you better really start pondering that question. Third option, the least likely, is doing something you appear thoroughly unable to do and try innovating mid-life with whatever crack team of bug spreaders you’ve got trying to push this game along to nowhere, to selling some season passes and stuff until Diablo himself shows up in 2026 to euthanize this project. In the vein of reactivity and variability I’ve suggested what a more advanced system of character actions can look like.

I realize by forum standards this is already a multi-volume tome but I want to remind everyone reading again why this game sucks at a fundamental level.

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Yeah, I agree. Its clear that there is one winner here and that is the art team, without a doubt. Those that are working in the mechanics department are the ones digging this game into maintenance mode hell far quicker than its predecessors.

We were promised, and shown, that D4 was going back to its roots and there was a great deal of hype surrounding that after D3 looking like WoW and basically being an arcade game. What we got in the end is D3.5. Better, darker graphics with basically the same gameplay.

In the end, they decided where their loyalties would be, and that isn’t just with the casual crowd…its with the hyper casual crowd. That isn’t a knock to those that don’t get to play a lot because they have tons going on in real life, I really don’t have a massive amount of time to play these days either, but I would still rather play something like POE2 where the progression is slower, more engaging, and a challenge (compared to other titles in the genre). I am routinely thinking about how I am going to path out my build, making tweaks to it, I’m constantly using everything in my toolkit when engaging mobs, and especially bosses. There is a lot of satisfaction in that.

The customization in POE2 is crazy and lets you run with all kinds of ideas as well, im currently running a bow monk, that usually uses a quaterstaff, with some magic from the sorceress class. Its a F’n blast…meanwhile over in D4 land every single character you inspect are all running the same cookie cutter S-tier build from Maxroll. This isn’t just due to the hyper casual playerbase, but also because if you aren’t running those you are getting left behind and struggling with high end content because the dev team is insanely incompetent with class/skill mechanics.

Its now just a boring, one button, almost non customizable, slot machine with RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG where you can brick that ancestral amulet with two passives you grinded hundreds of hours for, and one shotting uber bosses for the thousandth time. You get to do that next season all over again with a new/rehashed theme that is complete in a couple hours. Awesome.

D4 has two more seasons to get things right before I finally flush this shiny turd for good.

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Everything is very well detailed; I would concur that the graphics are very good. But (to me) they’re incredibly boring. It doesn’t help that the overworld is too big for its own good, or that there are over a hundred dungeons with what, maybe 7 or 8 tile sets? Bland repetition set in very quickly; for me, well before I initially finished the campaign at launch, even.

The monsters lack distinctness. To both tactical and visual detriment, one rarely seems to see monsters from more than two families at a time, and within a family, everything basically looks the same.

Say what you will about D3’s graphical style, everything was at least diverse and interesting.

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This is definitely a fact, completely agree. I don’t thi k the graphics got boring to me until the midway point of season 2, but even in that boredom I still appreciated the talent that went into them. Especially as someone that has zero artistic bones in my body.

100%. POE2 has more mob variety in the first act than D4 has in the entire game. Surprisingly for my praise of the art style, I was never a big fan of the mobs as it seemed more high fantasy for me, instead of gritty old school diablo…again, POE2 scratches that itch for me really well. I guess for me personally it was the environments, and even armor, and weapons that I really enjoyed.

I agree, I just couldn’t help feeling that I was in a modded WoW server.

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I always listen to podcasts when I play, like, how do you even just listen to the sound effects?

Doing headhunts with minions is lollerskates. Most of the time a couple other people come in with blood wave and then you really don’t need to do anything. Run for the root icon = profit.

I mean if I wasn’t playing seasonal I’d just be spamming tree bosses with malignant hearts to get mucus eggs to spam duriel. I don’t see how at any point in this journey I need to 100% focus on it. But then I can’t say the same of nearly any video game I’ve ever played. In 2025 this is just one of several things going on all at once, occasionally even in the background. Working as intended?

I mean when I was 10 if I had two TVs in my room I could have had cable on while I played NES but personally I was just lucky I had an NES on a minimal screen (the family’s crap tiny TV) in the kitchen. Multi-media just hadn’t hit its stride in 1987. Hell I was lucky it was in color because the next step down (my shed outbuilding/play house) rocked a black and white until a kid at my brother’s sleepover broke it somehow.

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Multi-media wasn’t even close to being a thing in the 80’s, I was born in 1980. If you were poor like me there were three channels, maybe four if you had your rabbit ears expertly positioned with a glorious amount of tin foil, because that worked I guess…we thought it did. I guess the closest I got was having a hand me down Atari 2600, later NES, with a radio playing in the background.

True. Depends on the genre though. If I am playing COD, or rivals, anything with interesting dialog, ill turn off the podcasts. If it is an ARPG I will always be listening to something.

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D4 doesn’t suck. You just happen to not like its gameplay.

Why did seemingly other simple games like Tetris or Mario succeed to provide entertainment over a long period of time? Why is League of Legends still so popular? First person shooter games? I think it’s because they have more varied cadences.

Kek. Yes, jumping on platforms over and over and pushing a D-pad down to watch blocks fall down over and over is 100x more “varied” than D4.

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The massive majority of those that bought the game don’t like the gameplay, easily putting it into the “Suck” category.

Clearly, you’re the target audience for this game.

What you’ve described is exactly why this game is :poop:.

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So if I’m the target audience that makes me, :poop:?

At least I didn’t quit a year ago and yet am still here arguing like it’ll mean something. I left my M:TG site 20 years ago because I didn’t like how the game was going, you are exactly like if I was still there telling everyone they’ve been wrong the entire time.

Get over yourself, you do not matter. If I’m the target audience then you matter even less in fact! Good day!

I don’t know what it makes you but it’s certainly disturbing to see an argument that the game is designed for “multi-media” use. That’s gaming dystopia territory. Hell, I listen to ASMR myself, but I had no idea people were watching TV and listening to podcasts! Anyone reading books or articles while they play? You could probably have a conversation with voice ChatGPT to churn out a banging 500-word essay while your character sleepwalks their way up to one-shotting Duriel for the millionth time.

When did gaming become such a mundane activity? It sounds like dish-washing.

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No. You shouldn’t take my comment on the game personally. I didn’t mean to attack you.

Just because the game is :poop: doesn’t mean the players that enjoy it are also :poop:. Come on.

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I have been playing computer games while running a browser since computing power allowed me to do that. Even on wow I preferred to have a podcast in the background.

Now in the past I have gone for straight escapism but that never really ended well. Given the 25 thousand coats of my own personal interests that I had to interject into D&D to enjoy that, I can’t say I’ve ever had a game that I was so enchanted with it that it made me forget everything else in my life. If you played in my D&D campaigns it was like you were interviewing my brain, it’s likes and dislikes, it’s conspiracies and philosophies. It was never just “I’mma go kill orcs in silence.”

I mean heck even when I’m playing mtg I’m usually having at least a minor conversation with my friend as we play. “So that’s how that happened. Oh. Cancel that.” “Sure. As I was saying . . .”

And that’s been a lot of my magic games for 30 years. Not against a focused tournament grinder maybe, but I never really had much to offer those types.

It would be like not listening to anything when I drive, to pay closer attention to the driving. Maybe might count if I was high end racing, but on my daily commute give me podcast!

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A good game is not supposed to be like your daily commute… often you don’t want to be doing your daily commute.

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People are going out of their way to change jobs in order to avoid a lengthy commute. In fact, the daily commute to work is considered a major hazard and it’s to be avoided if possible. At least where I come from.

So yeah, pretty good analogy there. If the game feels like doing your everyday commute to work then most probably that’s a bad experience and a waste of time.

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So how do the D4 devs go about making this game interesting to play? It is entirely possible, now that I think about it, that the gameplay is intentionally braindead.

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Yep I agree. This game is quite brain dead, and if you’re not already brain dead, it will make your brain dead anyway :slight_smile: There’s nothing to do once you got your ultimate build and paragons, just kill some monsters again and again. It’s quite like a bullet hell game, just kill, but at least in a bullet hell game you have to be worried about enemies movements.

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Im working on my personal depravation & braindead level… only 6 3/4 paragon levels left. I feel itchy… scratchy… slowly turning into a zom :beaver:

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The amazing part…. It’s just like every other game.

At some point you reach a spot where you use the same skills, because they are the most powerful because you trained or specialized in them.

At some point you can kill almost, if not everything in the game because…. See above and your max level, max power.

History shows us a few things. One if you take a a glance and apply some logic you’re doing the exact same things that we did 20 + years ago…. Just in a different package.

Two people don’t look back and apply logic.