There is no way to exploit an intended mechanic. Make them free and just add GR type protections to dungeon content and call it a day.
To respond specifically to your fearmongering point 1. They literally didnât and couldnât. The end game of D3 is GRs. GRs lock not only your build but also your gear. You either make a balanced build or you make a specialized one but you canât swap builds during the actual competitive aspect of the game. So maybe try actually playing the game before going on and on about muh exploits.
Itâs funny⌠I remember making this exact same argument to someone in another thread, just a few days ago. Itâs weird how listening to people can change your perspective.
Not everyone has played every game. Iâm willing to bet all these mechanics are new to them, and if youâve experienced it in another game, it will be as exciting and new to them in D4 as it was to you in whatever game you played that had that mechanic.
Iâd love a copy of those design docs you apparently have a copy of.
And the GR restrictions only take effect once you start one. You could do it before every nightmare dungeon / helltide / world boss / etc. in D4, if youâre trying to equate them to D3âs GRs.
1 Like
If you respected in front of a boss you would have to âpay it offâ at that boss.
As in you would get less loot etc from that boss.
Making it a really bad idea to respec in front of it (albeit general restriction of being unable to respec in the middle of an activity should very much still be in place too).
I very much agree that the respec cost should deter people from respeccing.
It is just way more likely that a gold cost will get meaningless over time.
Stuff like 50% less item drops will probably always matter in an A-RPG.
And for those caring about leaderboards: you should of course be unable to qualify for leaderboards while having this âdebuffâ.
XP does not stay relevant forever since there is a lvl cap.
But the general idea could work.
Like you permanently get 50% less drops, currencies etc. in exchange for the ability to respec whenever.
Of course, items and currencies should be unshareable between characters with different settings. It needs to be like HC. Also not playing together with characters who made a different choice, otherwise a respecter could carry a non-respeccer through content.
With the right design it certainly could work though.
But asking people to make a permanent choice like that per character seems unnecessarily harsh imo.
Sadly RMT will be there. And good can be traded too. Which is relevant for respecs.
This debuff would also help against that.
Which is exactly why a system like OPs is better. Too much of a risk that gold will be meaningless.
Yep.
Ooh, I have a suggestion for a new additional respec cost!
All your nightmare sigils are deleted!
Or maybe less harsh, the respeccing character can no longer use any of the sigils you currently have on your chapter (including any new one crafted from old ones).
That could stop a lot of respeccing for specific nightmare dungeons 
Of course, the system in OP is still better.
1 Like
Problem 1. People want game systems that provide meaningful choices in how they build their character, beyond just what loot to keep or trash.
Solution: Add a skill tree with respec costs that ramp with level so you can make informed decisions about skills and have some flexibility while still making meaningful choices.
Problem 2. People want to swap their skills around freely the way theyâve been doing in D3.
Solution: put one point in each active skill and you can swap to your heartâs content.
1 Like
As I said in the post you quote: âIâm all for using stuff that was already there then inventing bad stuff on your ownâ. Then again Iâm still intrested in all the innovation people see in D4 because to me there is nothing I would call innovative in D4.
Oh btw not knowing that xyz is a thing isnât making it an innovation ^^. I just asked because Iâve might missed something and a user praised the innovation in D4 so I wanted to know if I missed something ^^.
1 Like
Correct, and by adding a regressive cost based system, you are not adding the flexibility to properly explore your build.
Suggesting âjust add 1 skill point in active skillsâ, is not practical, intelligent or relevant.
We are talking expansive deep dives into fully fleshed skill trees, active skills mean nothing, they are the default 15 points. Itâs choosing your active skills, then building your passives, your paragons, and assembling a build.
The problem is when you reach the completion of this process and it doesnât work, or it underperformed, or doesnât play the way you intended the flexibility to start from scratch from the ground up become prohibitively more expensive.
âMeaningful choicesâ, what a joke, you canât make meaningful choices if you canât experiment and test your builds robustly.
You can do all the theory crafting you want in a planner etc. but 90% of the time theory crafting and practical gameplay seldom align.
Just like âjust dont respec!â isnât in a game with free respecs.
I agree that a respec system preferably should not be regressive. Hence why OPs concept is better than a gold cost.
I agree testing should be possible. That can be addressed while having respec costs (even regressive ones).
Just have a Trial Dungeon/Arena where players can freely choose skills and any gear in the game, to test stuff.
This is one of the biggest points of contention for me, without a testing function at all, a trial arena, or some way to test the voracity of a build before investing, then it needs to be free.
Yeah we kind of just have to play the game as it is presented to us, or not
You have many levels worth of time to test your build before costs become high. Even once they become high, swapping from one build to another isnât impossible, it just has a cost. You have to swap the items too, so itâs not like youâd be able to suddenly have a different endgame build because your doesnât work. Also, do you think you have to be level 100 to know if your build works? You will be tweaking and optimizing along the way.
There are two primary use cases that are harmed by the gold cost:
(1) people who want to level one character and then freely swap skills around constantly whenever they get bored with them, rather than making a new character to try out a new style of play for the class.
(2) people who want to chase the flavor of the month build so they can always feel like they have every shiny new toy that people are talking about
Being able to play in either of these ways means that you are not making any meaningful choices as you level. Everything can be changed on a whim so no choice must be made. Since that philosophy is not applied to any of the other systems (drops, aspects, enchants, consumables, gems, sigils, events, dungeons), which all require you to make choices about what stuff to get and then invest a little time to get different stuff, I donât understand why itâs viewed as reasonable to apply it to skill points and paragon points.
In D3 you can swap to any skill you want to use if youâve unlocked it. In D4, you can also freely swap, but instead of each skill being unlocked at a specific level, they are unlocked by you choosing to spend a skill point on them. If you want more breadth of options, you get less depth.
I think that is grossly misrepresenting players ability to make meaningful choices, you think its not meaningful to abandon a build or update a build or entirely change a build if you do indeed find one more suited to what you are doing. You never factor in the cost of rebalances which can completely destroy builds. None of these things are harmful to anyone. Ultimately you are arguing about something that doesnât effect you either. How does anyoneâs choice of build or gameplay impact you? It doesnât. And making it free doesnât change your stance, if you donât want to respec, then you donât have to, or are you saying if they made it free your self control is so lax that you wonât be able to contain yourself from âno longer making meaningful choicesâ. lol
And if this did happen, you could just respec. It would cost some gold, but that cost is rare enough. It bet the devs would even consider compensation for builds that were nuked. This is not a good reason to have constant access to free respecs.
Why canât you just put points into each skill and be able to freely swap how you want? Me being able to make those skills stronger by focusing points on them doesnât harm your ability to spread your points around. Or are you saying your self control is so lax you wonât be able to contain yourself from spending too many points in one place? lol
You havenât factored in the whole point of rebalancing was so that build youâre running isnât so OP. Not so every player will just switch over to the new OP build.
Having easy respec completely invalidates this.
It absolutely does affect us. PVP, leaderboards like why am I even bothering to explain this itâs so disingenuous to say it doesnât affect anyone else. OFC it affects all of us.
Yes. That is an important point for sure.
Imo, after each patch, all characters should be given 1-2 free respecs. No matter if they were affected by the balance changes directly. Since any changes, and new content, might be a good reason to reevaluate your build.
With that basic respec âneedâ covered, I also think it allows for respecs outside of balance changes to be substantially higher though.
If Blizzard keeps creating new OP builds in each patch, then the game got much bigger issues unfortunately. And yes, I know that was exactly what D3 did.
Thatâs not what I was referring to when it comes to balance patches. If you nerf one thing something else becomes more powerful. Itâs not about âadding new buildsâ the new meta will just be whatever is now more powerful than the build that got nerfed.
Not sure where you got the idea that I was referring to Blizzard adding more powerful builds. This will likely come with expansions not balance patches.
Sure, but a build being better than another is not automatically the same as being OP.
It very much sounds like their intention with season patches is to do that however.
You are arguing semantics like seriously completely non sensical argument you know exactly what I mean and you know you do. Honestly Shadout pretty much every reply you ever send to me is just you cherry picking words and changing their meaning to fit your argument when itâs so obvious what I mean. OP being better who cares what you call it you KNOW WHAT I was referring to.
Seasons are 4 times a year. Balance patches are not season patches. Once again youâre just arguing semantics or slightly changing the meaning of what I actually said to fit your argument. Pointless post.
I didnât, but fair enough.
This however, how are season patches not balance patches? If a patch changes the balance, it is a balance patch. That is not semantics 
In any case, we can surely agree that seasons are not expansions, so at least it is not just something that will happen in expansions.
Anyway, point just was, if/when Blizzard patches in new builds that are wildly stronger than other builds, the game has some serious issue, and a respec cost wont help against that particular issue.
How is this even possible? I literally wrote this post just before.
And you still wrote another post misrepresenting my argument and saying I was saying OP. Are you trolling?
ONCE AGAIN you are completely misrepresenting what Iâm saying by changing one tiny detail this is some sneaky troll nonsense dude stop. Youâre better than this.
I said BALANCE patches are not SEASON patches.
NOT SEASON patches are not BALANCE patches.
Patches will be happening a lot more than 4 times a year likely monthly patches will come out or maybe even more that will have balance changes.
Thatâs not saying that with seasons they wonât also include a balance patch. Stop misrepresenting my argument and pretending you didnât understand itâs extremely disingenuous and after writing a post like this yesterday backing you up.
I donât think Iâll bother again. Lost respect for you.