A Constructive Discussion regarding Item Integrity in the Eternal Realm

Dear all,

I’ve really enjoyed engaging with so many of you, whether it was through serious debates, light-hearted trolling, friendly bickering, or simply trying to understand the different viewpoints shared here.

Personally, I believe that once a player perfects an item, they shouldn’t have to refarm the exact same item in the exact same way for the exact same build. They’s why I dabbled in the Eternal Realm (as well as playing on the Seasonal Realm). However, my stance on item integrity ends there. I fully support the introduction of new items that replace current best-in-slot (BIS) gear, as well as new builds that arise from much-needed class balance changes.

Here’s why: The ability to perfect an item for a specific purpose gives players a long-term goal, motivating them to keep farming until they achieve that ideal gear. However, that “perfect” gear won’t be suitable for most other builds, aside from exceptions like the Shako (which Blizzard can easily adjust with new affixes or aspects). While it might work for a few builds, it definitely won’t be optimal for others.

I wanted to bring attention to a post by another player, Eisenhorn, that really resonated with me. It masterfully captured the frustration many Eternal players have with recent itemization changes, while offering a thoughtful perspective that also considers Blizzard’s motivations behind these adjustments. The post highlights the evolution of the game from Diablo 3 to now, and touches on the growing divide between Seasonal and Eternal Realm players on this forum:

"I think this is a really fair set of observations.

I don’t know why they’re arbitrarily moving Level 100 Eternal Players to 50 instead of to level 60 and just giving them level 800 items in place of their 925 GA items. IIRC, one Dev said they wanted to give the Eternal players something to do but I don’t think Eternal players see it that way. I think part of the appeal was always that you didn’t have to do the leveling grind and could just jump into the new endgame (maybe weaker because of intra-season power creep but still competitive) and farm new uniques or better items/new Mythics, etc.

If the biggest part of the player base is Seasonal, it shouldn’t hurt their metrics on engagement if they throw Eternal players a bone – but I suspect that while maybe a lot of commentators here and elsewhere are seasonal players, there are actually still plenty of players on Eternal and Blizzard wants to engage those players just as much as seasonal players. We don’t really know because Blizzard doesn’t share stats like that.

Anecdotally, you can see that this might be the case in the hub towns and World Boss events. There are still lots of players there and trade is active and it’s not hard to find groups in Eternal if you’re so inclined.

I don’t actually see why they can’t just make Level 100 players level 60 players when 2.0 hits. They are actually giving you this option on the PTR: when you copy your current characters over, you have the option to go to the dancing demon vendor and boost your character from level 50 to level 60 instantly – so it’s technically feasible for them to do it. This is a decision the Devs are consciously making so it’s fair for Eternal players to bring this up and hopefully they can sway the outcome before 2.0 hits.

But just to give the Devs the benefit of the doubt: I guess one reason they’d need to default everyone on Eternal to 50 is because it’s vital for your character to be at level 50 so you can play the Expansion zones in the way they’re meant to be played – or maybe some new zones are restricted/locked to a specific character level and by making Eternal 100’s level 60, it’ll break the game because the questline demands that you play it to start at level 50?

Blizzard does have precedent for rendering Eternal gear superfluous. Prior to RoS, everyone playing D3 was actually on its equivalent of the Eternal Realm. It wasn’t until the expansion that seasons were introduced – and IIRC it wasn’t even immediately afterwards but several patches into RoS – after they’d introduced a bunch of new sets – that D3 Seasons came along.

In RoS, they raised the cap to level 70 and also the item level caps so that basically, all the gear pre-RoS became legacy/sub-optimal/crafting materials.

So, they’re basically just doing it again now if they insist on making Eternal people come in at level 50: when the expansion hits you have to level 10 levels and then all your gear is a step or steps below max power level until you get to the top difficulty level and get to farm max level gear again.

I think where a lot of Eternal people are pissed off is because:

They just introduced a massive itemization rework with 1.04 that necessitated farming new gear; and They introduced a further re-work (of Uniques) with 1.05 that necessitated farming new uniques and non-uniques that worked better with updated builds.

And now, all the new gear they farmed in 1.04 and 1.05 are getting the shaft again. Basically, Eternal players have been co-opted into seasonal mode these last 2 patches (and into the upcoming one) – even though they explicitly didn’t want to participate in season-like resets to begin with.

I get it. This is a fair complaint. I don’t know why seasonal people are so triggered by it that they have to have really toxic opinions about it. This is a far more legitimate complaint than the bellyaching about Obese Druids or not having infinite re-tempers. By their own admission, these players wouldn’t touch Eternal with a 20-foot stick so why complain over something that doesn’t affect them?

Seems weird."

I hope this perspective adds depth to our thoughts on item integrity in the Eternal Realm, helping us move past repeating the same taglines and arguing until we’re blue in the face. Thanks to all who engaged in thoughtful discussions with me over the past 5 days. Turns out I just needed a perfect post to exit from these discussions.

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I tend to stay out of these conversations myself other then to offer a different perspective mind you. So bare with me as I play devil’s advocate, but not in the way you may be thinking. This isn’t me going against the cause, just asking some questions.

I am curious, are there any advocates for the change that are strictly Eternal Players and are looking forward to farming new items and gaining levels when the patch hits? I figured there may be a handful of people, but I could be wrong, I haven’t scoured each and every individual post on the forums.

Also I would ask, just a hypothetical mind you, I made this point in another thread. If they had come out and said the current changes were to be for the expansion only, would this change anyone’s mind? What I mean by this is, the level changes would be in affect, you would still be level 50 with 200+ Paragon when the patch hit. However you wouldn’t be able to reach level 60 unless you paid for the expansion.

Your level 50 would have access to their paragon boards and glyphs still stuck at 21, since that would also be expansion only to level them to 100. However you wouldn’t be able to go any further level wise, or paragon level wise.

Furthermore if you didn’t pay for the expansion, you wouldn’t have access to Torment Levels 3 or 4, maybe even 1 or 2 depending on how much more difficult they are compared to WT4 at the moment or if Torment 2 is actually on par with WT4. Something I plan to test in the PTR.

Your item levels would indeed still be crunched, so your 925’s would turn into 540’s, and the new tier of 800 would be in affect only for those who purchased the expansion. They wouldn’t be available to those still in Vanilla. Coming from this perspective, do you feel it would’ve been a better route to take for Blizzard or would it have changed nothing for you?

This is how I currently see it. They implemented expansion changes with base game changes at the same exact time, which leaves a sour taste in the mouths of Eternal Players in general. Where as if they just announced a number crunch, along with expansion only content, I feel it would’ve gone better, but I could be wrong. This is coming from the perspective that expansions are known to add more content and increased power levels for gear (where applicable) to farm. Just curious on your take, and other like minded people.

This isn’t to say I’m against the current plight against these changes for Eternal, by all means, fight the good fight, I won’t stand in your way or persuade you otherwise. It’s not my fight, but I’ll gladly stand by you to express your opinions in a civil manner as you and others like you have done. I’m just offering a different perspective from a theoretical point of view.

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I have nothing really to add other than after logging into a few characters (this was after all the updates/seasons) and looking at those characters and their gear. to me- as a seasonal player, they were worth nothing. deleted them, along with their gear and what was in their inventories. I will not leave out that (lack of) character slots played a role in the decision to delete them as well. for me, as a seasonal player it’s -easier- to make another character, roll it, and gear it up. <------the mind of a single seasonal player (in every game that has seasons)

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Eternal realm is basicly singleplayer, is not competitive in anyway shape or form because you arnt really competing. For a positive note, the only thing they should of changed is eternal realms level to 60 or atleast ask to start at 50, if you guys want to play eternal by all means go for it.
But I would like to bring you upto speed, it took about 4 hours to level 1 to 100 with the goblin event, and that wasnt sweating that was picking a good build that clears fast and easy and stuck with it, it gave me something to do, as for min max that didnt take long either, NM dungeons for XP and Glyphs some gear than rampaged into the pits.
but if its dont change my stuff you are after than they should give you a bone it hurts me none.

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I fail to see where seasonal is as well. I play seasonal in single player mode.

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Hey Iggi, always a pleasure. My immediate thoughts are as follows:

There are definitely Eternal players looking forward to farming the exact same item that I’ve talked to within an Eternal Clan. But they also didn’t farm as hard the prior two seasons as they were wise to anticipate the item-nerfing. It’s different for those who went ham on the min-maxing the past few seasons.

This is an interesting hypothetical. I think most Eternal players who invested their time min-maxing their gear will pay up for the expansion, hence Blizzard has a way to make money here if players could keep the relative item power by paying for the expansion (but this would fall under pay to win and outrage a significant chunk of the player base). I think very few people who don’t want to cough up for new features in the game would also min-max their characters and spend hours doing so –

I am not sure how Eternal players would still feel about farming the same item just to increase the item power. But they’d likely be open to farming new expansion items that are more powerful than the gear they have for a new build – It is a great deal more palatable to me to farm new BIS gear/s for a new build rather than having to construct the same pieces for the same build – means Blizzard put in the time and made something shinier and more powerful or specific to a new build for us to farm.

But in summary, these are my immediate thoughts. Will have to think things over. I realize that I am also speaking for myself here and my viewpoints may be distinct than some of the other Eternal players.

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Many of the item changes complains comes from Seasonal players visiting their old characters trying to relive the glory days of old seasons.

I can appreciate that. No need to rush of course, just wanted to throw in some questions is all. Sadly it’s also late over here and the wife is telling me to sleep. However I have some follow up questions based on what you’ve said in your reply.

I need to do some more research myself, and I hope to combine that research with actual gameplay tomorrow on the PTR. Leaving this here as a reminder to myself to follow up tomorrow and formulate the questions I have for you. I have the idea in my head, but don’t want to ask before I clarify a few things.

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this does make one wonder, but i’ve seen quite a few posts that seem genuine…as in they are strictly eternal players worried about their realm(changes), and their realm alone.

Well, I’d consider them to be Eternal players (just not-exclusively Eternal Realm).

Very well written and thought out post again!

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Thank you for posting this again. I feel like it hits it right on the nose.

Keep fighting the good fight, despite the negativity from some people here. Hopefully we can illicit some change

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We will know very soon if the item changes are nerfs below existing break points or increase of power gap to aspire into.

Conceptually, for me, Malignant Rings were an example of new ‘chase’ done well. It offered new functionality. It did not materially change mechanics of breakpoints.

An example of change done poorly was Razorplate between Season 4 and 5. The unique affix change rendered a previous razor plate completely unusable with the retroactive changes (since the thorns damage itself moved from the unique affix to the regular item affixes).

What is very bad overall, is they say they can’t retroactively update items due to ‘under the hood’ issues. But a lot of times there are sweeping retroactive issues left and right and when the changes are retroactive they tend to leave the player worse off. (Re-rolling ubers to max rolled items being the rare exception).

Finally, I believe fundamentally those with the most play hours and dollars spent on cosmetics in Eternal Realm are NOT looking for progression as part of their gamer journey profile. They are looking for COMPLETED progression before they enjoy the game. This is the key distinction. They are most satisfied slaying random monsters once they are perfectly or near perfectly maxed.

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Spot on.

20 charsthisis

adding new items is ok, destroyng existing ones is not ok. no eternal player protested because new items more powerfull than existing ones were added, but when they also destroy existing ones than that is against any logic of non-season play.

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This same situation already happen in Season 3 when item power jumped from 825 to 925. The 'Item Reborn" in Season 4 made quick work on Legacy items. Anyone that does play on Eternal Realm has already prepare for the disaster. It’s not a question if the complains are genuine or not. It’s really when did these people started playing Diablo 4? Above all else, we’re not getting a Legacy Razorplate situation. Everyone’s worry is that we are.

My suggestion: Keep the current version of the game and let folks play on that on a specific server for eternal players.

2.0 should be on a separate server. Kinda like PTR.

Yes, this will fragment the playerbase. But those folks who play eternal only and those who play seasons are already fragmented.

Yes, now we have two versions of the game and probably more cost to Blizzard and less money to them.

They already did this in patch 1.1.0 and S4. What’s the difference now in 2.0?

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Good post, Eisenhorns response to all of this definitely hits at the heart of the issue.

Just to add, we shouldnt treat this issue like there are only 2 answers. Those being either eternal gets shafted every season or expansion, or seasonal never gets change.

Cant there be a 3rd option that includes the priorities of both playerbases?

That’s exactly the point !!! Three times already our existing gear has been invalidated . This is why eternal players are NOW speaking up .

We fully expect things to change - but not every three months , we would just play seasons if that was the case

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