You beautiful madman, I told you Windsh1tterer would be back and better than ever.
Did I port over the build guide? If not, I can remedy that and we can update it…
I’ll give it a try, but I haven’t found a decent EF yet.
Where are my keys?
Yes, Bloodshed is definitely better.
Killvaneth asked what would be the absolute BIS rolls for BK swords with CC set. Yes AD/CDR would be mandatory but like Felix explained strength is only better for low para players. For myself losing 1000 str at the moment is only 3% of my main stat. So a 10%damage roll is still a 2% buff for me. And this will continue to be a larger buff as more para is acquired. And as free explained we are only taking IAS for zodiac procs. So this devalues IAS and IMO makes dmage% roll stronger in an absolute "BIS"rolled swords.
I would never recommend Damage rolls on a Dual Wielding Alternating Attack build until I started getting over 25,000 Strength. If you have that kind of Strength, you should already know what rolls you need for your character anyways.
But let’s review why I don’t go Damage % rolls or recommend it for most players:
- it’s cut in half basically because you alternate hands, you need two 10% rolls to actually get 10% damage
- 7% ias on weapons is multiplicative
- Zodiac, Ticks, Dust Devils, and Stricken depend on attack speed and breakpoints
Now if for whatever reason the 7% ias doesn’t get you to the next breakpoint, then I’d probably go Strength.
- at 20,000 Strength, going Strength on both Ancient weapons is equivalent damage. However it also adds Armor which will be more important if you’re going without APDs
IAS/AD/CDR still my bis for most players.
yes you are correct for most players and 99% of season players. I have almost 31k strength at 3400 para. My point is he asked for absolute best. Its the same as free’s guide. His guide is meant for 99% of players. There are a few that have the gear and paragon to play with area damage on rings and not attack speed and cooldown as the guide states. Or cooldown and area damage as wroboss had on his shoulders. Either way we are arguing a few percentage points and the only way this can actually be tested is if a really high para player had perfect WW CC gear. I’m almost certain no one has perfect cooldown/area weapons with the option of IAS or dmage% on both weapon.
This can be adapted to FoT, morticks, Messerscmidth’s, LoD gem, and EF.
Extra pylon time, GoW-extra shrine time, obsid and messers extra cdr.
It’s still just ok though, not close to LoD HotA. Probably not so much for HC.
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I can’t be sure about WW but it seams that there is an ICD (internal CD) for Stricken:
- for channeling skills it’s 0.9 sec.
- for normal skills it’s 1/actualAPS.
The first means that with channeling skills (like Rapid Fire) you get 1 stack per 0.9 sec. So stack amount doesn’t depend on your APS.
The second means that with normal skills (like Impale) you get 1 stack per hit. But you don’t get stacks for additional hits from another skills (like Vengeance).
Here is a link with test results for Rapid Fire/Impale/Vengeance:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20756965581
How exactly does Bloodshed work?
Is it true that Bloodshed once per second does damage that is equal to 20% of all your critical hits in the last second? Is Area Damage counted?
This got changed a while back. Once upon a time Stricken could be snapshotted and worked off the numbers you mention here. Now Stricken is dynamic and works off of 0.9 * Frames Per Animation (FPA). This means it takes into account speed boosts that don’t show up on your sheet, like the HOTA bracers.
Last year I ran a test that was requested to see how fast you could stack Stricken by using WW when playing Leapquake. The results of that test are rather confusing, but suffice it to say that WW stacks Stricken very quickly, faster than any other Barb skill, with the possible exception of Frenzy jacked up by Bastion’s Revered. And more attack speed = faster stacking.
So, first off, AD can’t crit. The damage done by a crit can be reflected in a hit that then procs AD, but you can’t crit an enemy, do 6x damage or whatever, and then have the AD from that hit do another 6x damage, for 36x total. So AD isn’t reflected in Bloodshed’s damage.
Bloodshed sums up the damage of all your critical hits in the last second, multiplies by 20%, and then discounts by the proc rate. For WW (both the base skill and Dust Devils), last I checked, it’s 20%. So if you did 100 damage via crits in the last second, that would be 100 * .2 * .2, or 4 damage.
On the basis of an individual enemy, that’s pretty bad. But when you have used Spear to assemble a big pile with hundreds of enemies, and Dust Devils are flying off in every direction, accruing critical hits to the edge of the screen, the damage really starts to add up.
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As I know snapshoting was fixed in 2015 and those tests are done in 2017. BTW Rapid Fire still snapshot attack speed (including bonus from PE). I have read that WW snapshotting was fixed in 2.3.
I’m glad to read this :).
Ya, Stricken got changed a while back and became very effective for Whirlwind. That’s why I wouldn’t discount attack speed even if you have more CDR now and don’t need as much Zodiac procs.
STD is still Whirlwind’s weak point considerably. Stacking Stricken is very important imo.
GZ on clears Free!
And Thx for build development (as always)!
As for gems, convinced that Gogok (with both AS & CDR) >> ([much] better than) BoT / PE, because of Crimson’s Set
Be careful with Gogok when used with CC set. 15% CDR is not 15% more damage. When I run with Gogok I am at 65% CDR without it I am at 59%, so I only get a 6% bump in damage from the CDR. The dodge I always feel is minimal and the AS will get you around 1 break point. Trapped and Taeguk are way better with respect to damage.
I only use Gogok for speed runs where damage isn’t important and I rather be able to spam my skills slightly faster.
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Actually, that’s only 3.78% (1.65 / 1.59 = 1.0378)
Agreed.
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So EF in Cube for this scenario only (for push runs Furnace’s better Imho)
And we have also +15% IAS - key factor for Zodiac WW - so very arguable
I am finding that EF in the cube is much better than furnace even for pushing.
As for the Attack speed if you go with furnace in the cube Gogok looks more favorable but which would you rather have 75% IAS and 50% damage from trapped to all mobs or 15% IAS and 50% damage to elites only?
Echoing Fury for the win 
Untill you meet RG )
And sometimes EF stacks die with trash while you’re still fighting with Elites )
Upd: For a long time I used BoT over PE (with Taeguk and Stricken) - then I took Gogok - and never came back anymore
(But, honestly, based on my experience (15-20 (of total 30+) thousands R/GR speed clears as WW) - BoT / Gogok show pretty close results for me)
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WW stacks stricken fast, I rather get to the RG 2 minutes faster than have 50% more damage to the RG. There are also RGs that spawn mobs that makes EF more favorable.
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Trapped > Gogok. No question.
If you use EF in the Cube, you will use Taeguk, Trapped, and Stricken.
If you use Furnace, you will use Taeguk, PE, and Stricken.
There are, to me, 3 factors questions going forward, and they all revolve around the question: What is better for pushing?
-
Furnace vs EF: Not sure. I suspect that by 125+, Furnace’s additional elite damage might be far more important, but it remains to be seen.
-
Crimson’s or Core Zodiac: Again, not sure. The Crimson’s variant looks, on paper, to be stronger, but I’m not sure if it will be as you push higher.
-
Mortick’s or Parthans: Again, as you push higher, I think Parthans will once again be best in slot.
All of the above is still in development. We really need someone to test these various options in 125+.
For say T16 farming/low GR’s wouldn’t Gogok be better? Or should I run Trapped the entire time even with T16 key farming? I’ve been using Gogok up to this point with no issues. Its been nice having the extra CDR for full uptime on WoTB. I am missing CDR on a couple other pieces to negate the Gogok yet.