That alone proofed that WSG is a huge bug and needed to be fixed. Glad the devs fixed that, so we can play D2RE legit now.
The fanatic bugusers will flame that, but its the truth and facts 
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Oddly enough sins were never that big of a problem, then again I mostly dueled on Hdins and Smiters who have charge to get out of mindblast. My Hdin was a lot more afraid of a good ele druid than sins, good ele druids were annoying to deal with. Then I made a trapsin to deal with ele druids, they pretty much couldn’t kill me ever.
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a paladin can break mb locks with charge.
and sins need to remotely know what they are doing to stun lock permanently, yet if they do know, they simply can.
you rly should join us for some duel tournaments on jsp. That would be a sight to see.
killerkat32 finally teaching those filthy jsp 174 fcr assa elitists how to play the game. love it.
mb lock? pah just gotta stack enough fhr buddy! - Killercat32, august 2021
Thanks for thee Offer But I Don’t use Exploits or Violate the Terms of Service, I Had My days when I Modded and used AA, bought gear ect from 3rd parties.
This time it’s going to be all Legit. You should Take Pride In doing the same thing. Because this time if you Could beat me in a Duel it’ll be because your toons Better Not because you used an Exploit.
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“I only dueled on joderdins so I don’t understand whats wrong”
“i had my days” wait, whats the most important pvp mechanic called again? wsg? doesnt matter i was feared on all of D2 back in my days - killercat32, infamous in public duel games.
you are a joke to anyone that takes pvp serious in this game. laughing stock
Said the guy that IS using exploits in his Duels to get an advantage. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Not anymore Buddy.
even if VV/Blizz Cave to yours and others Demands I Still wouldn’t use this Because I’m not such a Noob that I need it. Just the fact your crying about this tells me this was a HUGE Part of Your strategy.
killercat32, dominator of public duel games you are my hero dude. Srsly i have seen some amazing new players post in here but you really made my day, thanks for that.
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your welcome quit using exploits have a good day.
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PVP was never all that serious though, it was always a rock/paper/scissors matchup so I mostly dueled on my BM Hammerdin and had fun making people mad in pubs, or I would pubstomp with my bm team. If I want to ‘outskill’ people I PVP in games which are meant for it like shooters or Mobas.
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Having never heard of this before (I don’t pvp), I can give unbiased opinion.
This is pretty common in older games, that discovered bugs/glitches become part of the core game meta and are elevated to “feature” status due to the ubiquity of their use/abuse.
OG examples include bunny hopping, rocket jumping, animation canceling. Off the top of my head – Wave Dashing in Smash Bros, all high level techniques in GunZ, etc. The list goes on.
It’s hard to reason about whether or not such glitches have value in a modern revision. The fact that pvp balance depends on it is problematic. However suggesting changes to pvp mechanics (stun diminishing returns, etc.) would be fundamentally changing the game experience from the original which not a desirable thing for a remaster.
The fact of the matter seems to me that in original D2, stun was very powerful for pvp. Therefore I believe that in D2R, stun should be equally powerful.
That leaves the question of whether this bug should be fixed or not.
Should all legacy D2 bugs be fixed in D2R? There are definitely bugs that I’m sure everyone would like to see fixed.
So how do you choose which bugs represent the “original experience” and which bugs were just that, undesired & unintentional issues?
Does the developers’ original intent represent the true game? Or does the culture surrounding the game define the real experience?
This is hard to say. As someone who never used any glitches at all to my knowledge, lack of WSG does not impact me. Some games would sink without the widespread use of glitches, D2 in my opinion is not one of those games. If WSG didn’t exist in original D2, people would find another way to counterplay stun, or otherwise avoid dueling assassins, create house rules for no mindblast spamming similar to no using pots, etc. etc.
Again, I’m not an experienced pvper, but I am a professional game developer and a lifelong D2 player so I have some insight at least.
I would say that in lieu of an actual decision being made, NOT fixing the bug should be the default. However status quo bias is very real.
That being said I have not personally reached a conclusion for which side I land on, but if you can ignore the users attacking each other in this thread there is actually room for discussion.
If wsg doesn’t get fixed shadow mindblast sins will win duels with 102 fcr and lul mind blast spam your 8k life barb into next week, chip chip chip a dip in salsa Verde with guacamole. Ez ok all day, lul spam mind blast ftw.
Sounds like a great reason to nerf Mindblast. What’s gonna happen to all the newbs who try to duel and don’t even know about WSG? They’ll all just get permastunned till dead and call the pvp broken.
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Its not just mind blast, its all amazons with dodge/evade/avoid. Its max leap. Its shockwave, smite, stun, warcry, maul, even twister. Its a necro reviving urdars. Its a hammerdin or fire/light sorc or wind druid telestomping. Its a paladin holding down charge.
There’s a lot of ways to lock someone in a chain of hit recovery, blocking and/or dodge animations.
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1/12 of life = hit frame recovery activating.
The way FHR works is that there is a 37.5% / 75% / 100% chance for you to be put into hit recovery every time a single damage source deals at least 6.25% / 12.5% / 25% of your max life, with twice the % max hp thresholds for most missile attacks (12.5/25/50% of your max HP). It varies per skill. Bone spirit uses the 1/16 min divisor, bone spear uses the 1/8. Attacks which deal less than that minimum divisor of your % max hp, cannot put you into hit recovery at all normally. If you have 4000 HP, then a fireball that takes less than 250 HP can’t FHR you, one that deals 250-500 will have a 37.5% chance to FHR you, 500-1000 has a 75% chance, and anything 1000+ has a 100% chance to FHR you.
When the stun debuff is placed on you, this is changed to a 100% chance for any damage to put you into hit recovery, even 0 damage instances. It is no longer a random roll or % max hp threshold.
NO no no this is what NO WSG will look like , the necro is TRYING to WSG but due to 2 people FHR locking him, he’s perma’d. This CLIP is to show u what PVP will look like vs 1 PLAYER who knows how to abuse FHR locks WITH WSG REMOVED
The necromancer should have about 4frames to react with WSG in this clip, he’s trying if u watch closely to his wep/shield, BUT because the druid is also clipping him in fhr frames, he’s unable too.
WSG = wep swapping inside a FHR lock, to give u an animation cancel to avoid being this necromancer and giving you the ability to cast/run/do something inside a short window.
Again REMOVING WSG now means you just get fhr lock killed with no ability to do anything, it was added to balance… it was never added to give advantages it was to remove them … idk how else to explain this more clearly to the people focusing on “glitch” in it’s name.
1 more time for reading comprehension … with this “glitch” removed … (view clip),(you are all now the necro in pvp vs anyone with decent knowledge of abusing it gone). You praising this removal =/= completely unbalanced/no counterplay pvp, and HUGE advantages for vets/S+ tier pvp classes.
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THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT!!
lets fix THIS issue rather than relying on a BUG that the vast majority of the player base even played who have played for over 10 years dont even know exists as the only way to “balance” the game.
why not make it so you CAN react, this would make it fair for everyone… even pub players who like to duel.
there is no better time to fix this than with d2:R.
granted it’s not where i would spend my resources if i was blizzard…
i wouldn’t have touched it, i would have fixed more pressing bugs,
ones that were detrimental to gameplay rather than acting as a balance workaround.
such as fury erroneously being able to be stunlocked when zeal isnt able to be when thier skill descriptions both say they “cant be interrupted”
but they already HAVE touched it. so why stop halfway… why revert it… why not just complete it and fix the bug and address the issue of perm stunlock. they have already done half the work, why not fix the entire problem.
you also need to keep in mind that to i would say at least 95% of the player base this change has zero effect.
the fact you are bringing attention to it now may teach more people how it works yes, but most of us never even know it existed.
in the end i wont lose sleep either way… i can understand why u are scared, but there are SOOO many bugs in the beta why dont we just wait until release?
ALSO keep in midnt hat most fo us… who didnt know about the glitch… were never able to get out of those stunlocks… and it didn’t ruin the game for us.
i know your pain, but i just dont agree, i dont think its needed in the first place, and if it is needed ( which im not convinced of yet, im still on the fence) i don’t think the proper solution is to re-introduce a bug to address an issue that shouldn’t exist in the first place.
so rather than saying “reintroduce a glitch” why don’t you say that “if this glitch is fixed make sure people cant perm stunlock as that what the glitch fixed”.
and u will get much more support.
So just to reiterate: We already had a period where WSG was removed from the game, in March 2018. And it completely destroyed the dueling scene. Even this forum was flooded with people demanding it be added back, because it took a big axe to the PvP balance. Amazons were unplayable, Assassins were unbeatable. Dueling games could be completely shut down by leap barbs. It was accompanied by the hideous rubber banding effect we see when you try to WSG without the actual animation canceling server-side. People were glitching out horribly without WSG, and dueling games basically became “Watch your character rubber band back to the same spot 50 times a in a row while your health bar slowly whittles down”.
People saying how necessary WSG is aren’t prognosticating about what the future could look like. We’ve already had exactly this same problem before, just a few years ago, and it was awful. Even the Classic Games team listened to the players and re-added WSG, actually changing the implementation slightly by apparently emulating the effects under a new animation system rather than being a consequence of the old animation system, and the result was WSG actually got more powerful than it was before.
It needs to be readded, or what we saw in 2018 will happen again, and it wasn’t pretty