That animation is pure gold. Thank you so much for that.
I still can’t wrap my head around that D2R is a remaster focusing on improved graphics but they have managed to completely ruin so many characters and models.
They talk about their 70/30 rule which magically shows up as a talking point when the outrage starts about Amazon. But it’s more like a 10/90 rule with her where they’ve changed 90% of her look and vibe for the worse. D2R Amazon is just awful on so many levels.
Can’t wait to see the names people will give amazons in this damn game. Going to be a field of play man. Going to be some funny as sh@t. I think Blizz needs to tell us why it was so important to change the characters so damn much. Why was it so important to make them 25 years older and fatter in some cases (druid). And come on blizz manzon you are fooling no one but yourselves here. Blizz what was wrong with the old characters ? Why did they not get a upgrade ? What about them you felt was wrong or inappropriate ? So as customers are we to expect from all your future games to have PC toxic cancel culture in your games ? Serious questions ? Obviously the majority of fans are not happy with the state of characters. Yes we know the old game will be there. But the point of a so called REMASTER was to update graphics and compatibility to this game. And for the most part it looks amazing but the direction of the characters went off the deep end and look like complete trash. Couple are passable but the zon , druid, and barb are just that trash. There was plenty of OG art around and I am sure you all have seen it. But instead chose to go woke. Just being honest. It is exactly what it looks like. Putting Politics in a game more important than remastering it to its true old self.
That was announced at Blizzcon and in the subsequent interviews. Back in February. So no, that “talking point” is not new and was part of the original announcements.
This is where the argument came off the rails totally. No, it is not about politics despite a group of people trying to make it so on multiple platforms. Hence why you keep getting push back on here, reddit, etc.
It is fine to not like the art, but the idea that it is some sort of PC conspiracy invalidates any other points.
I am just calling it I like a see it. Amazon looks like a old man. Druid has put on a 100lbs. and Barb looks old as well. The artists are very talented and intentionally chose this. Why ? It is a solid question.
Except you are not asking a question. You are making an assumption.
They are not saying it is a new thing. They are saying it “conveniently” shows up as a defense for poor modeling of the characters.
Maybe not not politics, but it looks like it is definitely about political correctness.
Could you imagine if they took this approach to a remake of Conan the Barbarian? They’d have Vince Vaughn as Conan and claim he is a more realistic representation of a man. Then the people defending these character choices here would be screaming about how Vince makes a more believable Conan.
No, it is not a “convenient” defense. They said it from the start and continue to say it now. It has been in many interviews and statements from the start.
As far as I can tell they have not responded in any new way to the feedback besides the blue post on the Amazon face model. That they might consider iterating it.
We all knew that. That’s not what we’re saying - starting with the Korea interview they put that 70/30 talking point on loop in their interviews after alpha.
My point stands about D2R Amazon being 10/90 as well. Amazon is old and hideous, far from our sleek lithe Amazon of D2. The whole vibe is off. D2R’s face is like a stodgy sourpuss with no inner fierce emotion. It’s just wrong on so many artistic levels for capturing the spirit of the D2 Amazon in a remaster.
Please do not become an apologist for VV as they’re ruining the spirit and vibe of so many characters and models of D2. For many of us, D2 holds a special place and a remaster’s intention to improve graphics should not be to completely change the vibe and appearance of characters such that the community winds up in uproar.
Sincerely hope you understand how easy it would have been for them to just do a competent remaster without all the uproar but they’ve obviously chosen a different path.
Q. It is unfortunate that the character’s appearance is senile compared to the original. Do you have any plans to modify it?
When I did everything, 70% aimed to bring the original work to life, and 30% aimed to bring more detail and life to life.
There are other interviews where they bring up the 70/30.
Yes, they have been saying 70/30 the whole time. That was my point. If they magically pulled it out only after complaints, you would have a point, but they did not. It was a core point from the start.
I don’t care for the Amazon face myself. However, after seeing the “OMG PC/politics/SJW/” nonsense. I am am with the artists. Go for it. The insincere meme nonsense changed my mind about it. It does not feel like anything remotely like a genuine concern about art.
Much like the “concerns” about female chars in movies having big roles, etc. Attacking modern artistic choices in line with modern society does not always work well. Pushback against people stuck in the past happens.
I’m not saying it is a convenient defense. I’m saying you were incorrect in assuming the original poster meant it was a NEW talking point.
Their point (The person you originally quoted) is that it seems to be a cheesy cop out whenever they try to justify something. You can see that right? They say 70/30 for original/change, and now whenever someone has a complaint like Asian morphing or age disparity, Blizz just holds up their 70/30 card.
We said “70/30”
Hey this is not the same as the pixels or the 90’s high fantasy art. It is not what I had in my head.
Well we did say 70/30.
That is how I read it. I also have the same issue with Movie adaptations of books I read. The movie or mini series is NEVER like the original book. There is always some modern artistic license that goes into it - usually dependent on the director and what they want. I can go on a laundry list of issues with Lord of the Rings for example.
What I don’t do though, is decide that there is some sort of massive social conspiracy to change the books I loved. Or the games I played.
I do accept that times change, styles change, what is popular changes, etc. Much as it ever was.
Modern society still prefers attractive qualities. People still prefer sexual attractiveness and there will always be a market for this. You cannot change thousands of years of hard wired compulsions for procreation, and identifying qualities that meet ideal breeding standards. Society can frown at this fact, but suppressing these things doesn’t do anyone any good.
This is the heart of that “OMG PC/politics/SJW/” nonsense you mentioned.
This is a sword and sorcery fantasy genre. That genre is steeped in portrayals of strong men and scantily clad women. You are fooling yourself if you think society has changed so much in 20 years that most gamers no longer want this environment in their gaming. Especially since for the most part we are talking about the SAME gamers.
You’re making me chuckle a little by taking that completely out of context and ignoring my point of saying that they put 70/30 on loop AFTER ALPHA in the Korean and other interviews AFTER ALPHA like PCGN lol.
All I want is a remaster that doesn’t ruin the chars and models. Just improves the graphics and mechanics to modern standards. But instead they have chosen the path of uproar and very clear drastic changes to D2.
I mean, if you decide that you’re fine with D2’s original char vibes being destroyed that’s your choice but the majority of D2 players are not fine with that.
And that is what sequels are for. You don’t bring the technological standards of a work to current times, and then reimagine that work. If you want to reimagine D2, you make D3. Why remake a game and then destroy what it stood for? This is wrong. Period.
If you really feel that D2 stood for scantily clad pretty women doing things in armor that were not possible? I am sorry. That is not my main take away from the game.
My take away was the gritty battle against demons, deep character progression, meaningful choices in skills that had consequences, difficult fights, great loot hunting, etc. I also enjoyed the community. None of which ever talked about char models. Ever. Chat was about trade, making games, doing various runs, etc.
Core gameplay is more important to me than the interpretations of the vague pixels that were the original in-game art.
Like I said, I was with the face art criticism up until people made it all about “more beautiful, more skin, SJW, PC, censorship, etc.”. I am just sick of hearing that.
Miss Cheetah I have incredibly lax standards when it comes to the remaster of this game, which is frankly a surprise and blessing.
These standards can be summed up in a few sentences.
When I look at the characters, I want to be able to recognize them. Amazon and Assassin fall utterly short of what I imagined and saw in the actual character art for decades.
I want them to make small QoL improvements like shared stash, attributes and stat displays, auto gold pickup, these have no immediate or meaningful impact on gameplay.
Everything else I want left alone. Now, if I honestly do not at all recognize two of the characters, would you say they’re being true to their goals of a remaster?
If the answer to that question is no, then would you say I have reason to be concerned?
I thought you were more of a classic D2 fan but I was mistaken. Vague pixels? what?
Back in those days we got the manual in our hands. We opened it up and took a look at the classes, their art and vibe, what they could do, the lore, the role play, the skills, all of that stuff. On page 38 of my D2 manual is the Amazon full body art.
There’s nothing vague there in the manual. The lore is great, the art is great. The wording even says ‘lithe body’ and all that. There were D&D modules and Amazon was on the cover of one. Nothing vague there. A full animated model of original D2 Amazon was posted by original artist recently. Nothing vague there.
All of that imagery, lore and background creates a vibe for the classes. Amazon’s vibe is emotional, fierce, tall and lithe, much like an elven archer. Her appearance is well suited to the lore as well.
D2R’s vibe is an old unemotional sourpuss with a stocky lower body. It’s awful as art, its awful in supporting the lore, and completely destroys the original D2 Amazon vibe.
I mean they could make Barney Rubble from Flintstones be the new D2R Amazon and some of you would be fine with that. That’s how truly ridiculous this whole thing has become.
This isn’t a valid reason to change your mind about whether or not the modernized amazon looks as though she fits in D2.
Sure there may be some angry incels amplifying the issue, but the truth is, the amazon doesn’t fit. The voice doesn’t match, they look out of place in D2.
But they did. The sorc had exposed legs while adventuring, and could wear full plate mail with no change to her movement or abilities. They literally did things in armor that were not possible.
And if you don’t remember all the vulgar names people named their female heroes, you could not have possibly played this game online.
Then what are you doing in this thread? This thread has nothing to do with core gameplay. This thread is about a poorly adapted visual of a character.