Hi, I have a primal yang + rather strong 9CS myself but whatever I do, valla + dawn always gives me more dmg and I only have poor valla + dawn. So why do these leaderboard guys use yang when even my poorly rolled valla + dawn seem to beat a primal yang? Thanks!
Depends what role they’re playing but Yang’s has an inbuilt 50% RCR, so maybe they’re using it so they can spam stuff that would otherwise cause the DH to rapidly run out of Hatred.
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I also use it because of RCR, but only for speed farming and bounties, because in high rifts you dont run out of enemies and hatred, so I doubt it s because of RCR, but I m not sure…
Could be running Cpt Crimson’s and utilizing the RCR as DR. Although I also don’t buy your analysis of its damage - I’d take a primal Yang’s + great 9cs over bad dawn + valla’s any day
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Ah yes it is the RCR, thanks!
Maybe you are right, so far, I was only looking at sheet DPS (+7% for Dawn + Valla), but I have 14% HA DMG and 8% CDR on the quiver. I need to run this through the calculator. However the quiver has only 585%, but might be still stronger with 14% HA.
It may be used by support DH / zDH characters in a group.
GoD6CC3+Yangs, Yangs rolls 40-50 rcr which captain crimson converts to dmg reduction. Also easier to hit your cdr needed for 100% uptime for vengeance and FoK, which also converts cdr to dmg. Also forced to cube hunters wrath and depth diggers instead of equiping them, for 100% passives. On top of that, the rcr on Yangs allows you to more easily spam strafe when not hitting monsters and spam shadow power / smoke screen without running out of resources. Only problem with the build is trying to find a nicely rolled Yangs and Satchel…But as opposed for Yangs being used for UE, you dont need a highly rolled passive affix or need discipline in secondary stat.
you can find a more detailed explanation of the build here:
I don’t have nearly good enough gear pieces to outclass the “standard” setup yet, however from my ptr tests I can say: It is definitly easier / more comfortable to play, so if you have the correct rolls to replace your standard setup: go for it.
I still think in the end for the most profesional players out there (which I’m not part of…) the standard setup with the extra slot will perform better, but for the avarage player it is definitly worth it.
Yang + 9CS is very viable, same as all other setups, it all depends on your gear quality / rolls on which setup to use.
There are plenty of peeps who keeps saying (forums and in-game chats) that only Dawn+Valla’s is the way to go for pushing. That is false information. The only upside for Dawn+Valla’s is in group play, for solo play weapon (1h / 2h) + quiver is better, as demonstrated by Wudijo in many of his videos on the subject.
Valla’s pierce for strafe projectiles is nice, but is not required in order to push GR’s, ie: if you have a primal Yang with great stats, and an awesome 9CS you should use those.
I did like 100 GR120 in last 2 days to level a ton of gems to 120 for final augs and have some spares, and I literally went with all possible combinations of MH+OH (did not use any pylons to make it even, cause you can’t compete with an early conduit or power vs a speed or CDR one). All my clears were similar within 1-2m (depending on map layout / mob types).
If there was a large advantage for Vallas+Dawn in solo vs other setups I should have seen at least 3-5m consistently on this setup compared to rest.
Sheet DPS is misleading in game. For 2h you want 9 frames BP so you would only have 19% IAS total (gear+paragon, remove points as needed), while for 1h+quiver or DW 1h you want the 6 frames BP so you will have more attack speed which inflates your sheet DPS considerably (for example I have 3.05m with yangs+quiver and 3.5m with DW).
Thank you for sharing your experience, this is good to hear.
To make it specific:
This is my yang and 9CS: maxroll.gg/d3planner/781174015
This is my Dawn + Valla: maxroll.gg/d3planner/240435573
What do you think of these weapons? I will run them through the calculator and see what it shows.
Thank you!
Edit: I made a rough calculation:
Yang + NCS = 665 dmg per HA
Valla + Dawn = 592 dmg per HA
So you seem to be right according to the calculator, in my case Yang is probably better. What do you think? Is the calculator trustable?
Edit 2: In my case it seems Yangs that makes the difference. In speed farming FB + Dawn is stronger than FB + 9CS.
I’m no math geek, for me at 1.6k para, am speeding GR105 in 1-1:30m with yang depending on map / pylons, and doing 120’s in 5-6m consistently.
As soon as I get a good pair of ancient or primal gloves with trifecta (so I can roll off dex) aug them and reroll CDR from shoulders to AD, and get a quiver with CDR, to reroll Yang to more AD instead of CDR am sure I can do up to 130’s with yang sub 1.8k para (no fishing random map generator, with fishing you could push 135, not my style to spend 30 mins to get a good map to actually play the game).
I use Yangs+Quiver up to about GR115 with the Crimson Set. You never run out of hatred or discipline and you are pretty much unkillable.
After that level, the lost DPS becomes obvious and its not worth it. But definitely for T16s and speeds, its great.
Given the nature of the GoD6 set, I’m highly skeptical that one could notice roughly 1 GR worth of damage difference with how RNG heavy the HA pierces are.
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Precisely. The only thing that allows GoD to push higher is AD and large open maps with good mob types and right pylons.
I was doing some tests on my own in T16 bounties, killing the bosses only with HA to see how the pierces work and how often they happen w/o strafing. The results were mildly random lol. Sometimes I’d shoot 1-3 arrows and the boss would implode, other times I’d stay there pew-pewing for 10-15 seconds.
Noticed same thing when doing GR100 speeds, sometimes I kill lone blue packs in like 2s, other times I spend 10-15s with same type of pack (no waller no shielding).
Obviously more density = more chances for pierces and AD, but DiEoxidE hit the jackpot with the heavy RNG on HA pierces. Look at BS Necro, you know you will always get maximum dmg on stunned targets + poison CoE cycle, irrelevant of the density. GoD does not have that luxury ^^
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Well, I noticed it. Probably due to the fact that duel wielding adds an extra 130% CHD. That is my theory anyway.
According to the math, with everything else equal, any weapon + quiver is stronger than dual wield, not counting legendary affixes. This includes Valla/Quiver vs Valla/Dawn. Adding in the legendary affix from Valla’s and the extra stat, versus 2h bow’s higher base damage, the difference between the 2 weapons doesn’t even equate to a single GR’s worth of damage.
I mentioned what I did because it’s nearly impossible to truly “feel” the difference because of how RNG heavy HA is. It would require some super human capabilities to be able to know and feel exactly how many pierces are going on at any given time and how many mobs were affected by AD on each pierce as it’s happening, coinciding with X buffs available.
Ordinary humans would have to log in around 100 rifts each with both setups, recording all data from each rift and accounting for mob type, mob collision size, efficiency of oculus circle spawn locations, elite affixes, map, density, pylons etc to even have a slight idea of which setup actually performs better.
In your case, it may be that your Valla/Dawn rolled quite a bit better than your Yangs/Quiver, as your quiver in your profile isn’t ideal, missing HA/AD or HA/CDR. If ones dual wield setup rolled significantly better, then of course that person should roll with that, but if everything rolled well, then the difference between the setups is negligible outside of maybe a 500+ key push.
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You should probably reread my original post.
Aye play with whatever you got rolled better really. Most peeps run DW 1h because it’s easier to get them with good affixes / values than a quiver. You need at minimum on quiver crit chance and AD (decent values), bonus CDR / HA dmg / discipline rolls (and ancient ofc so you can augment it), ideally you would get one with nice dmg range, crit chance, cdr, AD and roll off vit or something else to HA (tho with taeguk not that big of a deal).
I even take Yang + 9CS over Vallas + Dawn in speed 120’s (4p), having perma smoke screen and no resource problem when we have low density or gaps between mobs, am 99% of times safe (not using awareness passive) even during Dervishes pylon spawns (died once from a simulacrum who got reflected just as I came out of smoke screen, 1.9B toughness not enough for reflected simulacrum bone spears lol).
And an early Happy new year to you all! <3
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