We NEED gameplay / balance changes. Here is Why

Diablo II: Resurrected General Discussion
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Whether or not the game post launch receives balance changes, it does not change a few things over the course of the ebbs of time for Diablo 2.
Fact: The is high interest in the community outside of this forum for them, as evidenced by at least two polls done this year.
Fact: The balance of the game has been under discussion for many years, even when the game’s patch cycle was still relevant (many calls to nerf Hammerdin post 1.10, and the leftover team did provide a small nerf, and I remember an issue being cited with the code and how the concentration aura interacted with blessed hammer).
Fact: A simple google search will reveal players complaining about balance and immunities before Diablo 3 was even a thing.
Fact: Leftover devs looked into implementing features players wanted, such as expanded stash, but found the server inadequate to implement.
Fact: Blizzard North shut down in 2005. Despite that, leftover devs did the following:
-Release a bug fix patch one month later (BN shut down Aug, patch released Sept)
-Another bugfix patch with digital installer in 2008.

  • 1.13c 2010: Added Respec, Added bug fixes, Recolor for some loot drops (runes, uber quest items), remove iron maiden curse from Oblivion Knights, Other misc balance changes and qol, skill balance changes, high rune droprate buff.
  • 5 more minor patches for bug fixes, server qol, compatibility, etc until 2016.

Point? People that want changes are not just Diablo 3 players, as the community has received multiple updates and these conversations have been going on throughout the course of Diablo 2. Even after Brevik and crew left, and even after the shutdown of Blizzard North, Diablo 2 continued to evolve. New content outside of bugfixes and compatibility may have stopped after 2010, but what changed? Diablo 3 released in 2012, with development taking place beforehand. Never have we had an opportunity to have multiple Diablo games all releasing in a very near timespan (D2R, DI, D4). Each with have their own distinct feel and dedicated community with dedicated parts of people working on them. Just because the game is a remaster, does not mean it is written in stone it can’t have live service. While a remaster, it is a newly developed title on new servers during a new era of time.

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Your facts are usually extremely interpretive, and pre-interpreted by you to support your position. It supports it in the same way a small child reaches for a straw at McDonalds.

I do respect your perseverance and dedication to your opinion, but when you say “facts”, it usually means you’ve taken some umbrella phrase or statement, and using your own brand of deductive reasoning, finds that it aligns exactly with your own personal biases. Every. Single. Time.

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Is it a factually statement that the reported results of the reddit poll with >4,000 respondents who self-reported to be D2 players that the majority wanted some balance changes in D2R?

We can argue that these respondents are not representative of the D2/potential D2R playerbase. You can argue that these results were fabricated without providing evidence.

Can you provide one example of a fact that I have claimed that is not true? Please quote it directly and not paraphrase what I actually wrote.

You may disagree with my opinion, but I tend to be very careful what I call facts and tend to be precise in what I state if I claim it is a fact.

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We can at least get a hint about how >4,000 self-identified D2 players who responded to the reddit poll. The majority wants balance changes. Certainly, this poll has sampling bias but it clearly suggest that those who favor balance changes are not some smll isolated fringe community but likely the majority

Sure you can get an idea of the majority of users that are willing to go to a link and click an answer. I don’t think you really understand how that can be falsified with different IP addresses or VPNs. The real survey from Blizzard after the game launches is what’s going to matter. Not some random survey that people who lurk or didn’t see on a reddit post. Even if it was mass spread, again the majority of players do not come to the forums or go to reddit. Most people don’t leave reviews or complain unless it’s a negative experience. Some have zero interest in doing nothing but playing the game or using the product they purchased, it takes a certain type of person to be proactive about leaving a review or participating in a poll on third party websites. I’d even argue on official websites as well. Which is why I’d personally like to see surveys done in-game as a news pop-up before the game let’s you proceed to enter.

Diablo 2/D2:LoD is out there if you do not want changes. Blizzard announced that these games would not change irrespective of what happens in D2R. Moreover, D2R will not allow direct injections into D2R. Therefore, those modes will not be tolerated in D2R.

This is completely false - Diablo 2 mod is completely different than some hack you’re able to inject. Please see the diablo Tweet below confirming this. Easily googleable:
“Why you would want to manipulate this Hell? Are you some sort of demon yourself? Woe! Yes, mod support will be here in Diablo II. I beg of you to go easy on a poor old man.”

Finally the biggest take away from this is that I want to play the re-mastered version of the game. Not something that is so drastically different that the game doesn’t even feel the same because the balance changes have made it a brand new game.

Back to my original post - Vicarious visions seem to have the same view. While they will listen to the community at the same time. The good news is they will have all the full data from all the players that participate on the forums and play the game, not just d2 forums and a reddit poll that can easily be cheated.

“Our team includes many D2 purists who have thousands upon thousands of hours in the game before working on it professionally, and our goal is not to break what isn’t broken.”

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Do you know what security measures were in place for that particular reddit poll? You should look it up. Using a different IP address or VPN would not allow multiple votes on its own.

Blizzard has already sent out two D2R surveys asking players about 7 and 19 changes already after D2R was announced.

Actually, you are the one wrong here. Blizzard has been explicitly clear that mods that inject into D2R will not be allowed.

Please read the quote from the lead D2R producer Chris Lena here:

Diablo 2: Resurrected Is Not Compatible With All Mods From The Original (thegamer.com)

Most of the popular D2 mods currently inject into D2.

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They stated during Blizzcon that they will be moving much of data from the DLLs into data that can be modded outside of DLLs. However, they did not state exactly what data. Both the owners of PoD and PD2 said that they would not be updating their mods for D2R, as much of what they had done, revolved around injecting those said DLLS for things such as server codes, which is something I highly doubt Blizzard will be converting to moddable data. Even single player mods like Plugy, inject the DLLs, which is why the future of that mod is in an uncertain place (which is why super important to get the full game into single player mode currently).

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You are absolutely correct. In that article that I linked here is what was written:

Producer Chris Lena shared a new intel on user mods for D2: Resurrected, as PCGamesN reported. The team had to make some choices in how the new game will handle the community’s work. Lena said that Diablo 2: Resurrected will “certainly work with the ones that use the original game’s data” and that sort of thing. But the mods that injected code straight into the game will not be supported in the new remaster.

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We’ve established, polls gathered in such a way are not credible. A quantitative record does not add validity to the myriad of other parameters a poll must meet to be considered statistically relevant.

If I put a poll up as Crest Toothpaste and I ask 5 random people on reddit if they’re:

A) Doctors

and

B) Prefer Crest to other brands

Getting a result that 4 out of 5 Doctors prefer Crest to other Toothpastes can easily be a result, but it would be complete garbage. The poll was garbage. The questions were garbage. Verifying they are actual Doctors complete guesswork.

You’d fail in any Stats class setting up a poll in such a way. This is why we’ve EXHAUSTIVELY ELABORATED why this poll is HOT TRASH yet it CONTINUES to be brought up as relevant.

Because you’re using a poll whose own credibility is up for serious debate as supportive evidence.

You’ve interpreted that the poll is statistically relevant.

You’ve interpreted that the poll is relevant in some way to your position.

You’ve interpreted that “supportive of changes” means “changes you want”.

I like that you stick to your guns, but I’m here to tell you, bringing up this poll is not the way. For the sake of civilized exchanges I will say with regards to ploot, the best angle you’ve had thus far is the Accessibility options. I have far less “ammo” to topple your position if you continue that line of reasoning.

So I beg of you, for both our sakes, let this poll go and keep pushing that Accessibility argument. I have a great deal more sympathy for individuals that can’t click quickly due to disabilities than, "random people want change, here’s a really poorly designed poll, so here’s my ploot argument.

Your argumentative position isn’t tenable on such a large slice of pie as “people want changes”. This poll is actually cutting your own legs out from under you. Keep posting what you feel is right, but please take my advice under consideration.

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Actually, you are the one wrong here. Blizzard has been explicitly clear that mods that inject into D2R will not be allowed. Please read the quote from the lead D2R producer Chris Lena here: [Diablo 2: Resurrected Is Not Compatible With All Mods From The Original (thegamer)]Most of the popular D2 mods currently inject into D2.

The point is the game will still be moddable. If you want something so drastically different than the original game, do you really want D2 remastered or do you just want an updated new re-made version of D2? Where is the line drawn on what the game is now or even was at 1.08, 1.09 etc? Any random thing needs buffed/tweaked because people scream balance! and to you that is okay but then when is it still a re-master if it plays more like a mod than 1.14D?

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False. We have established that you can question the results of these polls and that these polls have sampling bias. It is a fact that it was reported that more than 4,000 respondents self-identified to be D2 players.

Nope. I have never said it was statistically relevant. Please see how many times I talk about the reddit poll be qualitatively accurate and not quantitively, given the results of the other polls on D2R that have been made by a multitude of distinct individuals.

In general, I want an option that is a strict remaster for the purists and a optional realm where the game is updated/modernized more aggressively. If you want a strict remaster, you choose that option. If you want an improved/updated version you choose that.

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In general, I want an option that is a strict remaster for the purists and a optional realm where the game is updated/modernized more aggressively. If you want a strict remaster, you choose that option. If you want an improved/updated version you choose that.

This is something I can get behind - even if that means splitting up the playerbase to do so - it’s no different than D2R classic, D2R Non-ladder and D2R Ladder ( as well has hardcore versions) - Then a new options for the updated/balanced version of the game. People play where they want to play regardless anyways.

I think they will really have to do this if they don’t want to piss off the purist players out there. While I’m not against balance changes even if it seems like it, there’s a really fine line of making these changes to the full game that eventually makes it something entirely different if purist players do not have the ability to play the current iteration of the game. 1.14D. I’d also like to see “ladder” type of gameplay that allows for people to go back and experience an older version of the game. Ladder event: 1.08/1.09 - which could be cool for players to see how the game was back then.

I think the biggest concern from purist players is that if they change the game. Is it really a re-master? Why change a game that’s all about being said remaster - when you could just go play D4 or a Mod that’s made for D2R without injection instead?

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Okay. I’m done being nice here, but you’re factually incorrect. This isn’t an opinion.

Send an email to Wolfram Alpha or Khan Academy if you lack any collegiate or knowledgeable peers on statistical analysis, along with all the parameters this poll used to survey and query. You’ll need access to the raw data.

Ask them if you repeated that poll could you attain an 95% C.I. that a “majority” of “Diablo 2 players” want changes in D2.
Then ask them if you can deduce from the nature of questions asked in the poll/survey what percentage wanted personalized loot.

It won’t even get this far, because there was no way to validate that surveyees were even Diablo 2 players.

That’s how quickly the validity ends, because it’s a crappy internet poll.

You push it on threads constantly, like it has any significance at all. You push as if it has weight. That’s why it is wrong to do so.

I wash my hands of you.

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If the poll is representative of the D2 playerbase, then you can go to any online statistical power calculator to see how many respondents that you would need to see any potential difference in a population proportion versus a theoretical with an alpha of 0.05 and 80% power.

Trust me I do not need a refresher on statistics. I never claimed that the poll was statistically relevant.

This is what I wrote last month.

>4,000 respondent D2R reddit 25 question results are out - Diablo II: Resurrected / General Discussion - Diablo 3 Forums (blizzard.com)

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If you cannot validate the surveyees are who they say they are, on the most basic level as it relates to the goal of your survey, (D2 players want changes). YOU HAVE NO SURVEY.

All the math you do afterwards is pushing piles of irrelevancy around.

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Do you honestly think that of the >4,000 respondents where 99% self-identified as D2 players that they lied in mass?

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If you’re questioning my “belief” on the validity on a poll because you cannot provide the empirical evidence to conclusively prove otherwise, you’ve already demonstrably demonstrated the inadequacies of your own methodologies, math, and understanding.

I really don’t care that you “believe” the poll.

But you need to stop pushing it around like it has weight, especially after you’ve admitted

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The fact is that you can not prove malfeasance.

Multiple other polls have independently confirmed the reddit poll result qualitatively. Therefore, either all polls have been fabricated to be internally consistent or alternatively, the polls tend to be relatively accurate and corroborate each other. Occam’s razor lets us know what the most likely explanation is.

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I don’t need to prove malfeasance when I can objectively illustrate the methodology is a complete farce.

You’ve also already admitted:

All I ask is that every time you push this “internet poll” that holds up like a wet paper sack in a hurricane, you preface it with a statement that you don’t find it statistically relevant.

That’s being intellectually honest.

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This is because the poll has sampling bias and I can not conclude that it is truly representative of the population that it is trying to model. That is why a do not claim it is statistically relevant. If it a representative sample, then you can apply statistics accurately.

That is intellectually honest. Also, you completely ignore Occam’s razor.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will cite multiple polls going forward so no one can make that claim any more that I base my views on a single reddit poll which has never been the case. This poll is the most comprehensive with the most respondents. That is why I focus on it. It may take me some time to go through all the polls but I think there are at least 6 or 7 that corroborate each other. Of course, that means my posts will become even longer…

Thank you for making my case going forward far more compelling. I appreciate all your help.

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Jesus christ when will you stop with the survey reference in each and every single thread and post, there is at least one final prove why all your surveys have no relevance to anything:
Blizzard gave us several feedbacks now recently on the current state of D2R and nowhere is to read anything about balance changes or poor-loot crap. So i guess you can calm down and start accepting facts

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