Chantodo nerf is 2-3 max. Rend is now 134 max. a 0 gr nerf was acceptable. They really nailed the numbers before. It took 10k paragon to get 140. Not one other person could replicate that. 9k paragon got a 138.
10k para 140 clear meant that most of us non bots had a chance at 130-135. Now you need 10k para just for 133. Which means the build maxes out for us around 125 which is absurd.
Why grind your butt off just to get 125gr clear when other classes can do that in half the paragon it would take barb.
Personally, i’m about 45 seconds off from a 120 clear on my sader at 1725 paragon. The thought of needing another 1k paragon for ww/rend to compete is mind boggling.
Do you honestly think that the developers made their decision based on a single GR clear?
Yes or no.
I believe that the developers looked more comprehensively (easy to do, since you claim it was a single GR clear that informed their decision) and objectively made a determination based on their game analytics and their experience.
even if they don’t nerf it because of the 10k+ guy, it still doesn’t excuse the big overnerf, now even with that much plvl the build is just mediocre - with normal paragon the build is dead for leaderboards
if they listened to the streamers, those need to entertain and often have a quick mouth without thinking about the consequences
Again, a 140 on the ptr means at least a 143 on live. That’s how the ptr has always worked.
The build was too powerful, and people who think overwise “because a 10k paragon outlier doesn’t mean anything”. Guys. I cleared 133 on the ptr even though I had never played Whirlwind before. That’s higher than what I have ever cleared with any other character despite being top 20 with both monk and crusader, and having pushed way more with both of those classes. Stop pretending the build wasn’t too powerful, it was at least as powerful as current chantodo, that finally got nerfed. I’m glad they didn’t make the same mistake of letting a way too OP build go live.
So it’s ok for Wizards to clear 140-144 GRs over two seasons, but barbs can’t even clear a 140 GR in one and if you think barbs could clear a 143 or 144 GRs than you have no idea what you’re talking about…
“Because this happened in the past” is not a valid argument that something will happen in the future. It’s not even close to valid.
I watched the 140 clear. I studied the build. I pushed with the build. WW is not a hard build to understand, so the argument that you “never played ww before” is void.
You give little information to your 133 claim. Was it on S19 ptr? How much paragon do you have? How many augments did you have? If you’ve never played WW before, have you played barb before? Did you already have the gear or did you farm for primals on the ptr?
This is where people create confusion and overall manipulate others. You state a random claim that you cleared 133 with zero information.
It wasn’t even close to current chantodo. Look at the 144 clear with Chant. It was done with less paragon and in 12.5 minutes. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
The 140 was done on top tier, best of the best maps, he still died, and it took him over 14 minutes. Get your facts straight.
It literally happened EVERY TIME. Not once, EVERY TIME.
It was on NS PTR, obviously. ~7k paragon. Played zbarb only. Got the gear from that over the years.
Zero information ? I gave you the information that with no prior experience, I cleared higher than I have ever cleared. No matter what, it proves that it’s stronger than everything else I’ve played, and I’ve been top monk and crusader for a very long time.
You have no idea how the build would perform on live, why are you assuming it would be 140 max, even though the guy spent like 2 hours pushing the build, with a 200ms delay because ptr is on NA. Sure, he got a decent rift, but not gg by any means. Bad pylons, he died etc.
Patator also cleared 145 with chantodo, and he isn’t even wizard main. And Chantodo got nerfed because it was too powerful so stop comparing to it like it should be on chantodo level.
chantodo only got nerfed to around 142 so thats why the barb down to 133 or 135 is too much of a nerf. Also my main problem with nerfing barb is now rats is king again for group speeds. I would rather have rend equal to rats and if it’s too strong in solo you can buff other solo specs.
well he also said that chantodo should be nerfed further, because it will still be on top after nerf - but on the opposite his opinion on class balance is just stupid and he didn’t care about the powerdifferences between classes -.-
we should fix the difference between Barb, Monk etc to Wiz and for god’s sake if you promise barb chances (3 seasons ago) make some actual changes not alter items and leave builds still underperforming
With regards to Fluffy, I think the dude’s a great advocate for his class–Necro. When it comes to Barb, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and unfortunately, he has failed to take constructive criticism about it.
Streamers and YouTubers have far too much pull with Blizzard. With a few exceptions (Rax, for example), they rarely play the game at a high level, and their content is designed to appeal to the broadest possible player base in the simplest, most easily digestible way. It’s more about the “like, share, and subscribe,” and less about knowing anything in depth.
Here’s hoping the devs realize that losing a 200% multiplier on an item will nerf the build into the ground.
My understanding is that excluding the rend damage modifier on lamentation, all the other buffs in the initial PTR 2.6.7 remain, including ambo’s pride that now automatically applies rend and the total damage of rend is dealt over 1 second…
You’ve played a lot of zbarb… so you know how to WW very well… You’re also 7k paragon bro! Of course you can do 133… lol.
That’s like me saying the build is op because it can do 110 at 1500 paragon. That doesn’t shock anyone.
Current NA Non-Season LB:
Wiz-143-8.8kP-14:11min
WD-142-7kP-14:27min
Nec-138-7.1kP-13:42min
DH-138-9.8kP-12:55min
Cru-137-8kP-14:19min
WD has a 142 clear at 7k paragon. Nec is at 138 at 7k. Don’t come at me that barb should be nerfed because you can do a 133 at 7k.
I’ve been saying the max is 141. That 140 clear he had a top tier festering floor. It wasn’t decent it was amazing. Festering, with zombies and grotesque for low damage, conduit and power pylon. You think conduit and power are bad pylons??? In that one floor he was able to do 95% of the entire GR. He also died during that rift against enemies that do low damage. The rest of the time his life was fluctuating a lot. That goes to show that he doesn’t have enough toughness for higher gr’s. Even if he had a max stat flavor like his hellfire, he’d still lose the power from that 5th passive. It might’ve saved 10 or 20 seconds if he had fot on that conduit pylon, but nothing drastic. That has more to say about the power of FOT and not the power of barb.
There isn’t any room on the build to turn into toughness. It can’t survive in a 142 or higher by any means.
I’m not trying to make it chantodo level. I never said that. I was comparing how strong chantodo is and that barb is not even close to that level. The chant nerf is like 2-3 gr’s. It’s nothing.
They nerfed barb from 140/141 to 133/134 and nerfed chant from like 145/146 to 142/143. Wow…
Regardless, someone with 10.5k is not an outlier. By no means should they try to “balance” barb around what someone his paragon can clear. Only 1% of the players are even clearing over 125.
I do have an idea. After looking at all the pushes and pushing the build myself, I definitely have an idea of what it can do.
Also, potato wasn’t the only high paragon to push. The 2nd place clear was 138 at over 9k paragon. Took him over 14 minutes too. If the builds potential is so high, all of these gr’s would’ve been done faster, but they weren’t. Why not you ask? Because the potential isn’t as high as people are speculating.
I watched the whole 140 clear. I didn’t see much of a delay tbh. I saw him keep pressing esc for like 30 seconds of the rift to mitigate lag I guess. I wasn’t really seeing any lag. Not more than what I get.
This is the first time I’ve seen your name pop up about barbs. I’ve been here discussing it and looking at the track record of barbs for a very long time.
are you really serious???
what does that matter? all the rend buffs are still not enough if you take the 200% on lamentation away and render the build useless for pushing
the other buffs on hota and seismic slam are a step in the right direction but also not enough…
…the power difference between barb and other classes doesn’t change -.-
Nothing should have been nerfed. But Blizzard doesn’t care what we thing about this. All in the name of balance, and there lies the problem. There is not balance in this game, and its a stupid idea to begin with when no one is setting goals based on Paragon-GR. At what P-lvl should the average player with no primals be able to clear 110, 120, 130, 140? Please elaborate and explain the reasoning behind your arbitrary opinion, or just accept the fact that you’re a troll and all you want is your favorite builds to be on top - or that you want the average play held back so they can’t get on the LB’s. Admit it, you’re just being childish, and Blizz needs to stop listening to nerf trolls.
Exactly like i predicted. Just empty words. Always the same " We heard the war cry of our dedicated barb community, next season barbs will shine, bla bla bla. You guys lost your credibility.
