bbattlemode
6 Likes
I agree 100% with you buddy.
2 Likes
He talks about systems that were removed from D2 that eventually made up D3 and then blames it on players… What?
I followed every piece of info during Diablo 3’s development from announcement to Beta. Almost universally the community wanted not only new features, but they wanted doubled down on all of D2’s features. And for a small while it seemed D3 would deliver until all the cuts started happening.
Edit: I still remember all the “Where are the Sapphires & Diamonds?” posts among other things.
On the topic of loot. While in theory everything you said about the social aspect of learning who you can trust, or having faster fingers, etc sounds good, I wanted to point out that, back in D2 they had this app called GrabIt! That would pick up things instantly, leaving no time for legitimate players to have a chance. In practice it wasnt feasible.
Also, there was some bosses, I think it was Baal, lagged when he died, and screen froze for about 5-10 seconds. Upon resuming, the entire screen shook violently, and you’d see a flash of colored labels representing the various items that dropped. But before you could even react, they were already gone.
I learned that when the screen froze, to just start blindly clicking like a mad man in hopes that I would get something - anything. I was rarely successful, save for the odd white trash that nobody wanted. There was no “skill” at all, it was completely and utterly luck. I even tried to practice Baal later on once I was able to kill him solo. Even by myself, during that screen shake, it was next to impossible. Lol not sure if the developers did this on purpose but there was no “get good” here. And watching those items disappear in an instant, every single time, felt bad.
So on that point, I whole heatedly 100% disagree with you. Personal or instanced loot was a definite improvement, one of the few, introduced in D3.
It’s not me but what about if it didn’t lag and you weren’t blindly clicking? Guy’s talking more of the importance of world consistency and competition. These are little parts of the game that they didn’t realize were important. If we add in trading, item competition HAS to happen.
Sure, I could get behind it if it was fair. I mean as long as I always have the option of playing solo. I do agree with the part about having a reason to trust or play with certain people. This is the same line of thinking for Pantheon (old school EQ type game currently in development) where learning who you can trust to play well is a big part of their vision for the game.
One guy tried to “show me how to dupe”, by attempting to scam me in D2. I remember going “ohhhhh you punk I see what you’re trying to do”. Great times, it feels like there’s little to no interaction anymore save for the occasional vote kick.
To be honest though, most players were d-bags back in D2. At least that was my experience. I never really met any nice players, except the “clan” I joined at one point.
1 Like
very good video 110% right on spot
2 Likes
They really didn’t factor in the importance of player interaction HOW to make that happen in D3. They removed most of the reasons players interacted in the first place. I vote on a hard yes for shared drops. Let players see all of the items on the ground, maybe scatter the drops a little more with more players in group so one guy can’t click one tiny location really quickly? Maybe rolling on boss loot? I’m sure there’s a way to make it more fair AND incorporate competition. If everyone has their own loot per monster, trading is going to be inflated in no time. 4x the loot means item values will go down to nothing which means everyone will quickly be able to trade for te best gear quickly. Stop killing competition! Give us Diablo back and what made it interesting/difficult/unique
1 Like
It already begins bad about magic find on gear, I really really hated that part in Vanilla D3. Getting rid of this was actually something I liked.
If you weren’t interested in magic finding you weren’t forced to do it. I didn’t MF when it was possible and I got through the game just fine. D3’s implementation of MF was a disaster anyway. Magic Find is a very interesting part of Diablo to most players I would say. The same idea behind MF is behind trading. If you just slay x amount of monsters and on average you get x amount of items over and over, you have no meaningful variation in player/monster difficulty or item curve. Giving players the ability to somewhat make their own luck is crucial in a game built on chance.
100% agree. This is the thought-process that I expected from the devs interviews at blizzcon. Saddly, it was non existing which worrys me alot. I will not buy a D3 again…
1 Like
D3 Itemsystem was awful at the beginning. It was better then it is right now, but definitly not better then in D2.
1 Like
Un grand bravo pour la vidéo.
Exceptional text. Deep understanding of d2 mechanics and social aspect. Video comparable to the 4 videos from Llama.
In d3 every player plays within his bubble and can’t interact. Greed, selfishness, threat, generosity can not be evaluated in order to make friends. Personality is removed. What’s the point of playing online? Friendship in d3 is virtual.
Diablo is not just a horror dark game. It’s about showing reality. Reality in its simplicity, Reality in its brutality, Reality in its authenticity, Reality without filter.
And if the developers don’t understand that, they will not create a Diablo game.
Freedom plays a role in Diablo, without which a world of interactions can not exist.
What I fear is a lazy answer to please both d2 and d3 communities try to make a half bound, half tradable loot, half safe, half pvp zones. And as a result, breaks the world into parts, and the game will turn into cases and options to activate in a menu. This is NOT a world.
D3 removed the decision aspect thing of the game for the sake of the supposed “quality of life”
But what is exactly "Quality of life?"
- is it quality of life to come back to the same spot when your character die within seconds with no drawback?
- is it quality of life to have a map with a yellow arrow GPS that shows everything on the map, removing the need to read the quest?
- is it quality of life to remove potions from combat and defeats the purpose of having towns?
- is it quality of life to to removing different sizes of weapons because players are not smart enough to organise an inventory?
- is it quality of life to pick all the gold available instead of letting the player decide which amount of gold worth a click at the expense of time?
- is it quality of life to identify all items instead of let the player decide when an item worth spending a scroll, or let unid in order to trade?
- is it a quality of life not actually having to think to equip a character where every item share the same stats and every item slot are virtually the same?
- is it quality of life to have all the spells available, defeating the purpose to actually give your own character to your character?
- is it a quality of life not having to think, nor actually PLAY the game?
Let me clear about it, my opinion is D3 mechanics are bad, I am not happy to say this. I am not happy to say there is nothing to keep from it, except spell balance and spell diversity.
2 Likes
i love this post +1. give us the best of all the diablo games and more. make it stand out. In fact I think this is one of the best posts i’ve seen regarding the world.
1 Like
Control of population are also in other games, they do it to reduce complaints in the forum.
Let me tell what happened in Grid1 and Grid2 for instance, racing games:
They are manners to drive on the track, unmannered way is:
- when someone wants to overtakes you to push him out of the track
- if you want to overtake someone, you take the interior corner in a bend.
After a while playing online, people know who behave and who does not. And the drivers who don’t behave well can not overtake anyone anymore. Because the majority hates him.
But casual gamers complain because, they don’t want to wait that long to build a reputation and will complain right after the first encounter.
This is why Grid2 changed it and when you touch someone’s car, your car is slowed down for a few seconds. Social aspect was gone.
For diablo 4 I insist shared loot has strong social benefits.
Shared loot gives more sense to solo play, give good reasons to make a clan, and good reasons to revenge someone and try to kill a person.
The franchise Diablo is a world of freedom. In which temptation to do good and temptation to behave bad must impact the world.
1 Like
i agree. unfortunately most d3 players want simplicity in its purest form. force only good to be possible. bland, straightforward monster farming with no reasons to interact with players other than more dmg to monsters. d3 is beyond boring because they removed so many parts of diablo that they didn’t recognize as gameplay yet they were very much gameplay.
1 Like
I will give you an other example to illustrate the Trust part of the video:
Perhaps some of you have already travelled abroad alone for personal development and not for holidays.
One way to do it is to arrive in an unknown location without defined plan, and every encounter can be a threat or an opportunity. You make encounters, People propose to travel with them, propose you deals.
Should you accept the deals? Should you follow them? Bad and good experiences teaches who to Trust. Bad experiences teach too. Once you trust someone in a real life situation and build upon it. When the bound is done, everything you experience feels more vivid because there is something to lose that you overcame. Because there was a risk.
This feeling carries you during the entire journey of diablo2.
It’s a feeling that you don’t experience if you travel within a tour operator that can be compared in some aspects to d3.
D2 is the mirror from everyday’s real and vivid experience of life, with its joys and griefs.
It’s the purpose of Fables. But Diablo is not just a fable to tell, not just a story to tell. It’s a Fable to play. in which you are a protagonist. (Look and google what a Fable is)
This is one of the multiple reasons d2 is a masterpiece, and not just a game.
And this scheme also applies to projects in movies, music and more.
What will we say about Diablo IV in 20 years? Will we say it has passed the test of time?
1 Like
Couldn’t have said it better myself. They’ve turned Diablo into a one dimensional beat em up. They need to take a good hard look at Diablo 1 and 2. Just look at the thread D4 Devs seem obsessed with to see what I mean. They want no player freedom. They want everything dictated as if we’re unable to tackle conflict or social situations. It’s all about gimme gimme gimme. Their ideas aren’t restrained and only ever focus on the small negatives of ideas in D1 and D2 instead of the the incredibly dynamic world that was created as a result of freedom BECAUSE they detest trade-offs. If there’s any downside to an idea at all it’s A NO from them.
1 Like
Nobody has mentioned that every single item in d2 can be used to craft or to be upgraded. Everything can go in the cube. From town portals, arrows, potions, or white trash. Every-single-item has a low to high-end purpose. In d3, the only good item is the last iphone, making every other one obsolete.
2 Likes
Yes, a very good point I always forget to bring up. Diablo’s item game is mostly on point. It’s not as perfect as it probably could be but it’s quite impressive. I love the iPhone comparison because that’s exactly what Diablo 3 is at its core.