No consequences, risk or sacrifice for any reason ever. When I make a choice like mf, that means I do less damage or take more damage but the reward is I might find more items. Regarding shared drops; when all players see the loot that drops from the monsters, this creates competition (double edged sword) but it also makes items more valuable. It creates player interaction and relationships between players. Trust is involved. Skill is involved. Odds are most times you won’t get the best items that drop but eventually you will. You’ll also be able to grab items other players missed or already have so they give them to you. It all relates to replayability.
Item competition is DIRECTLY related to the success of trading in D2. If in D2, everyone had their own loot all the time and no one else could see your loot as in D3, D2 trading would likely have been removed and gone down the same terrible path D3 did. It just ruins the game and gives devs fewer options. I think it’s the key to having a healthy economy just like in reality. Resource competition drives it and makes it interesting.
Magic Find, I honestly don’t really care much if that becomes a thing in Diablo 4 or not, so I won’t say much regarding that.
Shared Loot however, I’ll have to strongly disagree with even bringing that back. There are other ways for players to build and/or ascertain trust in the game without requiring shared loot.
No, People will solo run MF to secure their loot for future trades that will be a 100% investment time/money. In a group, people will steal items and you will lose all of it.
Secondo: The only viable point I see in this, would be, if you do MF runs with a group, If you want to create interactivity with community and force people to work together, make it that Drop objects have better stats when drop as a group, so it creates rarity, harder to get because you might get it stolen.
Worst point in D2, Literally everyone, without any exception, had a PICK UP 3rd party program that allowed to steal anything, and the player with better latency pickup up faster. Unfair but it was the reality on the whole B,net, NO EXCEPTION!
Just use PoE’s solution and our whole discussion here is pointless. After all, the more things that we are able to customize in our gameplay, the better.
All I can honestly think of with a system where loot is up for grabs is click bots and macros. Even a simple mouse movement and click macro can cover the center of the screen with 10,000 clicks in a few seconds.
But also, I don’t see how it’d help if trade is partially locked down as they plan it to be. It sounds more like adding inconvenience and frustration just because.
I do think it would be better in creating an “economy” if trade was open, but what good is an economy in D4 really? It’s not like PoE where there is no gold and most currency has some meaningful purpose in accomplishing something. I think you’d see crazy gold prices on anything worth while or a real world currency cost when everything is said and done.
And this would all be at the expense of casual players btw. And considering Blizzard probably wants as many people as possible to actually buy the game, I don’t believe they’re looking to alienate the majority of wallets (which is both a blessing and a curse).
This is completely wrong. I can tell you that is soo not the case. I have been playing Diablo with the same group since longer then I will admit. And not one of us used a cheat program for any of the games. Could we have? Sure. I could whip up a bot or the needed program myself. But none of us did. And we still don’t to this day.
So don’t say it’s everyone. You sound like someone that got robbed a few times and is now really scared.
I think everyone is really over exaggerating this open world deal. I have been thinking about it alot and one thing comes to mind. The statment that they still want it to feel remote so outside of town and world bosses (still think those will fail) you will almost never run I to anyone else.
Of course, that’s why this always online thing and no hacking will make the system in D2 work like a charm. No hacks to ruin the item competition.
what are you even on about? i don’t care about trading i care about third party selling? what? go away useless troll. i want the game to be interesting, challenging and long-lasting. if blizzard makes it always online, stays on top of it like wow and d3, and create balanced systems we won’t have to worry about pickits/dupes and overpowered items. They can take what D2 did and improve upon it. Your posts are always the worst i don’t know why i’m replying tbh
resource competition directly affects a trading and the economy shared world. if you have every player always getting all of the loot that drops, the economy will be a disaster and they’ll remove trading again. watch. it’ll become just another bland monster grind with little to no player interaction. I just hope they fully understand what made d2 last so long. I hope they don’t just put a pretty horror blanket over the emptiness that was d3. even WoW was better for having everyone not just get the loot that dropped from monsters but have rolling as the competition. imagine the prices of rares on the wow auction house if we all had copies of the item? the auction house would be incredibly over saturated even more than it is sometimes. this is diablo 3 instanced items in an economy. everything becomes worthless so everyone will have everything. like there being infinite resources like oil and gold in the world. value would go to nothing.
If loot rain from the sky similar to Diablo 3, then having shared loot wouldn’t help with that; instead it may just promote solo play over group play (because some people wouldn’t be able to get the loot in time), which I doubt the developers would want. Just make sure that loot doesn’t rain from the sky like it does from Diablo 3 and it’d mostly be fine. I’ll refrain from talking about trading since the devs themselves don’t really know how they want to handle it and there’s already plenty of discussion going around regarding that.
Sorry bud but i don’t agree with your ideas. Lawlessness does not foster trust. It fosters thievery and dishonesty. As others have said it will promote click bots. It promotes gankying and cyber bullying. It will promote trolling and toxicity in the forums, where the flinging of the term “snowflake” will be common place. This will create a prison like environment where the game isn’t loot hunting, it’s preying and back stabbing one another.
No thanks. It will drive people away who want to actually play the game.
I could agree with shared loot in a party but not in the shared world (boss fights and town).
In parties there could be an option for shared loot or something like that. Each palayer can turn it on/off when in the party but they can’t change it unless they leave the party. And could also have some way to roll for loot (but this isn’t really needed).
Idk if it’s been said.
I like how d3 loot is your own loot. I didn’t like fighting to click on gear in d2. But. I don’t like how I can find a really good wiz item on a barb and can’t trade or give it to a friend that isn’t in my game that I found it in. And I dont have a wiz. So it just becomes craft mats. D2 resulted in a lot of ppl just buying the gear from those websites. Pl
it’s about no compromise or sacrifice when it comes to almost everything. mf, item drops, you name it.
Who said anything about lawlessness (although i disagree with you on this one as many studies show the opposite regarding human behaviour)? I feel like you’re mistaking resource competition for stealing gear from someone’s stash. I feel like this guy might explain it better than I can. When the game is spitting out 4x the average single player finds from a non-competitive pool you’re going to run into serious problems very quickly. This is why wow has rolls and doesn’t just give everyone the blue item that drops. It’s why the world says “this item dropped for this group” not “40 of these dropped for this group”. It also aids replayability because you’re not gearing up in no time. WoW classic is a very good example of why you don’t just give everything to everybody. The roll system was brilliant because it turned grabbing loot from the ground into a calculated chance.
D2 back in the day was a like the wild-wild-west. Greed, back stabbing, ganking, griefing, and 3rd party real money trade. All the greed, back stabbing, and ganking did was:
1 - Drive away players who wanted to enjoy the loot hunting game
2 - Drive 3rd party RMT sales to those who wanted to short circuit the path to power (pay2win)
3 - Drive 3rd party RMT sales to the victims of ganks and griefing
Attempting to assign value to an item by denying it to the vast majority only serves to create a pyramid power structure. Those at the top have the best items and the most power, while those at the middle and bottom struggle and are loot starved. The idea of “keep struggling… ahem trying… and eventually you’ll get that shiny item” only serves to prop-up a false economy.
I am not saying we should start handing out participation trophies, but I can see the D2’s flaws.
As for the linked the video. The narrator talks all high and mighty about immersion, but then insists on there being an implied social economic system in the game, that requires one to vulnerable. He wants players to be dependent on being able to click faster than the next guy when players are just going to use a click bot to scoop up loot. With enough players employing a click bot, the non-bot user has very little chance at getting loot. Another way to abuse the shared loot system is just to stand on top of the loot icons, to obscure the ability to click on loot. The whole idea of get better or competent through negative experiences is hog wash. The idea of behave like a douche as a teaching tool to improve another player’s competency, is also hog wash. I’m not interested in masochism.
He presents arguments in a way that a politician presents arguments. Offer a one-sided argument that ignores the weaknesses and short comings. This is to allow a system or feature to be introduced that is wide open to corruption and abuse.
No disrespect bud, but anyone who’s played D2, D2-LoD, D3 vanilla, and all of D3’s expansions is going to see through your arguments. You aren’t pulling the wool over my eyes. You aren’t fooling me. I have issues with what was presented at BlizzCon, but I don’t want pure D2 style systems either.
Why would you ever think blizzard would allow this in their mmo-ish game? It’s not going to happen and if it does it’ll be dealt with. It seems like this is the only thing people can come up with. Oh and I’ve played DIablo games since 97. I put a lot of hours into Diablo 3 and RoS and the game does one thing and one thing only: provide an item farm into eternity. Diablo was about so much more than loot farming. Loot was only a piece of it. Needless to say, D3 continues to be a very hollow experience indeed. Do they allow bots in WoW? Of course not. It’s not 2000 anymore. They have far more control now than they did with D2.
My arguments are more for trading economy and basic economics. Scarcity and competition are paramount to assigning value. If we have the game spitting out 4x the loot to accommodate each player in the party’s baby demands, it’s going to go south very fast. PoE knows this. D1 and D2 knew this.
Sure, this existed but it was not the majority experience a majority of the time. Stop trying to control players. A game like Diablo SHOULD be like the wild west. I can’t believe I have to say this. You want a pg Diablo game with no ganking? No back stabbing? Buddy, that’s boring and uninteresting. D3 was that. If people didn’t like loot competition in D2 then they could play with friends or solo?? If they didn’t like the ganking (which only really mattered in hc) they could make private games with friends or solo? What’s the issue? They turned Diablo into a game for children that could in no way shape or form meet in conflict. It’s just monster farming time in d3 and that’s it. yikes
I’m not going to say anything to the ponzi scheme analogy because it’s heavily flawed. He didn’t sound like a politician to me, he told us what he thought and why. It was short and sweet.
